June 21, 2010 at 2:33 pm
jcrawf02 (6/21/2010)
The image on this link goes out to all you World Cup watchers, but specifically Gail, and is quite possibly the funniest use of music software I've ever seen....enjoy! :hehe:
Funny LOL
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
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I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 21, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Hi YSLGuru, thanks for the defense. Working on that edit for future articles, hopefully it will be clearer to folks when they read it again at some distant time.
Gaby________________________________________________________________"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." - Albert Einstein
June 21, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (6/21/2010)
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
Stefan Krzywicki (6/21/2010)
How do they (anyone but the main ref) know how much time is left? I certainly have no idea. This is one reason I don't watch soccer. It feels like at the end of the game the ref just lets them play until he feels like it. I also don't like having no idea why yellow and red cards are being issued. It is a poor way to acclimate new fans.Again, it is a players game. it is meant to be played with as little interference from officials, coaches, and spectators. Enjoy the game, don't worry about the fouls and cards; the players know what is going on even if they don't agree with the officials.
Best thing I can suggest, if you have kids that play, get out there and officiate. I have learned more about the game as an official than I learned from watching or coaching.
"Enjoy the game, don't worry about the fouls and cards" or the time, I'm guessing. Unfortunately, I'm not the kind that can do that. It is like telling me "enjoy the game, don't worry about the goals or strategies". Is there any way for someone other than the head ref to know how much time SHOULD be allotted at the end? What's to keep the head ref from letting a team he favors play until the catch up or win?
A) I can't see the corelation between worrying about the fouls and cards and worrying about goals and strategies. First, why are you worrying about goals? All it takes to win a football (soccer) game is to score one more goal then your opponent. The strategies, those are constantly on display. In fact most Americans don't seem to understand many of the stragegies. They simply want the players to advance the ball and score. Not the best strategy in such a fluid game as football (soccer). If my mother in-law is watching the game, she constantly asks why are they passing the ball backwards.
B) You have to understand the role of the center referee. His role is clearly defined in Law 5 in the Laws of the Game. What would keep him from allowing a team he favors to play until they catch up or win, the AR's and his own integrity (I would hope). Any referee that would allow play to continue in that manner has no business officiating a football (soccer) game, or for that matter any sport. Most referee's are above this and serve in professional and ethical manner.
June 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
A) I can't see the corelation between worrying about the fouls and cards and worrying about goals and strategies. First, why are you worrying about goals? All it takes to win a football (soccer) game is to score one more goal then your opponent. The strategies, those are constantly on display. In fact most Americans don't seem to understand many of the stragegies. They simply want the players to advance the ball and score. Not the best strategy in such a fluid game as football (soccer). If my mother in-law is watching the game, she constantly asks why are they passing the ball backwards.B) You have to understand the role of the center referee. His role is clearly defined in Law 5 in the Laws of the Game. What would keep him from allowing a team he favors to play until they catch up or win, the AR's and his own integrity (I would hope). Any referee that would allow play to continue in that manner has no business officiating a football (soccer) game, or for that matter any sport. Most referee's are above this and serve in professional and ethical manner.
A) Why am I worrying about goals? Even in a low scoring game like Soccer, hockey or baseball goals are still how the winner is determined, yes? Or have I completely gotten soccer wrong and the winner is determined like figure skating?
Why do I want to know about fouls? Because I want to know what is happening and how this could affect the game.
B) So nothing then. One hopes this is true in any sport, but basketball had a horrible reminder not too long ago that this isn't always true. In soccer, the temptation must be enormous since no-one but you knows if they should be allowed to continue play. If you have a rooting interest, no matter how small and the team you want to see win has a decent chance to win in the next 10 seconds and you know they should stop in 5, who's going to know if you give them 3 more to get off that last shot?
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When you encounter a problem, if the solution isn't readily evident go back to the start and check your assumptions.
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It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.
What’s so unpleasant about being drunk?
You ask a glass of water. -- Douglas Adams
June 21, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Stefan Krzywicki (6/21/2010)
Lynn Pettis (6/21/2010)
A) I can't see the corelation between worrying about the fouls and cards and worrying about goals and strategies. First, why are you worrying about goals? All it takes to win a football (soccer) game is to score one more goal then your opponent. The strategies, those are constantly on display. In fact most Americans don't seem to understand many of the stragegies. They simply want the players to advance the ball and score. Not the best strategy in such a fluid game as football (soccer). If my mother in-law is watching the game, she constantly asks why are they passing the ball backwards.B) You have to understand the role of the center referee. His role is clearly defined in Law 5 in the Laws of the Game. What would keep him from allowing a team he favors to play until they catch up or win, the AR's and his own integrity (I would hope). Any referee that would allow play to continue in that manner has no business officiating a football (soccer) game, or for that matter any sport. Most referee's are above this and serve in professional and ethical manner.
A) Why am I worrying about goals? Even in a low scoring game like Soccer, hockey or baseball goals are still how the winner is determined, yes? Or have I completely gotten soccer wrong and the winner is determined like figure skating?
Why do I want to know about fouls? Because I want to know what is happening and how this could affect the game.
B) So nothing then. One hopes this is true in any sport, but basketball had a horrible reminder not too long ago that this isn't always true. In soccer, the temptation must be enormous since no-one but you knows if they should be allowed to continue play. If you have a rooting interest, no matter how small and the team you want to see win has a decent chance to win in the next 10 seconds and you know they should stop in 5, who's going to know if you give them 3 more to get off that last shot?
Regarding B, I was actually on the other side of that as a center referee. I was in extra time, and my watch indicated that time had expired, but I permitted the team with the ball to continue a bit longer as they had a goal scoring opportunity. After about 3 more seconds the player still hadn't taken the shot and was being challenged hard by a defender, I turned toward the center circle and began blowing my whistle to end the game. The player took the shot between the time I turned and blew the whistle. The ball entered the goal, but I disallowed it as play was over when I turned toward the center circle to blow the whistle. Unlike basketball, there is no shot in the air rule when the whistle sounds. And note, I stated that play was over when I determined it, not when I blew the whistle.
And the players know to keep playing until they hear the whistle, thus phrase "play to the whistle." Unless the ball has gone obviously out of play, you play to the whistle.
In regard to A, its really simple. It doesn't matter what the fouls are that much but what is the restart is for the foul. There are ten penal fouls, ones that result in a direct free kick (DFK), or penalty kick (PK) if the foul is by the defending team in their own penalty area. Any other foul (such as the offsides infraction) is awarded an indirect free kick (IFK). Misconduct and send offs are fairly easy as well, there are seven cautions (yellow cards) and seven send off's (red cards). These are detailed in Law 12 of the Laws of the Game. Players are basically allowed one yellow card in a game. A second yellow in the same match results in a red card (ejection) and your team plays down a player the rest of the match. There is more to these, but as a spectator the why for the card isn't really important.
If you really want to learn more about the game, get involved in youth soccer in your area as a referee. I know where I am we are always looking for people that are willing to step up and take the plunge, in fact I am a Referee Instructor for AYSO. You will learn so much more by stepping out on the pitch than you ever will by watching the game. And another benefit is that you will actually start to understand what is going through the mind of the Referee and Assistance Referees during a game. Just realize that in youth games, depending on the age of the kids playing, you are going to call things that would be ignored in higher level games. You may call a push in U-8 Developmental game that you may let go in U-16 Premiere game. The Laws may be black and white, but in the spirit of the game there is a lot of grey.
June 21, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Lynn,
I appreciate your trying to explain the soccer rules to those of us not as directly involved as you are. You've helped me to understand it somewhat better, though I suspect I'll always be somewhat partial to ice hockey since that is the sport my boys are in.
Thanks!
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
June 21, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Allowing limited challenges and replay reviews has worked pretty well for rugby, tennis, and cricket. My own view is that giving an extra official access to video replays has been a big benefit to rugby and tennis. I'm less certain about cricket, but it may be that the details are still being refined there.
Football (soccer) might also benefit. Allowing reviews where a goal has been scored (or disallowed) or a red card shown should not disrupt the game too much and might work as well as it does for rugby. I don't think the game should be stopped for reviews in other circumstances, and there is already of process for post-match reviews for other types of incidents.
About the 'lack of a clock' in soccer. As has been said, there is a clock for regular time, and the amount of 'injury time' to be played is clearly shown by officials just before the end of regular play. OK, so the exact moment that the game will end is determined by the referee (and his own timepiece) but I don't see how that small uncertainty 'ruins the game'.
It seems to me that American audiences are just used to seeing a play-time clock in other, more familiar, sports. Having watched more than a few American Football games that were over long before the clock ran down (spiking the ball, running down the clock, etc) I'm not sure that approach is superior (or more 'professional').
Paul
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
June 22, 2010 at 4:33 am
I think this one qualifys:
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic940758-146-1.aspx
Seriosly, how do these people get to a point where they are even alowed to look at a live server :crazy:
Adam Zacks-------------------------------------------Be Nice, Or Leave
June 22, 2010 at 4:50 am
Schadenfreude-Mei (6/22/2010)
I think this one qualifys:http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic940758-146-1.aspx
Seriosly, how do these people get to a point where they are even alowed to look at a live server :crazy:
Adam, I don't quite get your post......
The forum you reference, the poster signature says: "i am a slow walker but i never walk backwards"
Yours says "Be Nice, Or Leave"
I personally don't think it's nice to look down on people with less knowledge than yourself.
As his signature suggests he walks/learns slow, but at least he learns.
We should try to help people who need it....and not be nasty...except if there is no attempt whatsoever from their side, and rely on us to do all the thinking for them.
You state ""Be Nice, Or Leave"......?
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This thing is addressing problems that dont exist. Its solution-ism at its worst. We are dumbing down machines that are inherently superior. - Gilfoyle
June 22, 2010 at 4:58 am
Schadenfreude-Mei (6/22/2010)
I think this one qualifys:http://www.sqlservercentral.com/Forums/Topic940758-146-1.aspx
Seriosly, how do these people get to a point where they are even alowed to look at a live server :crazy:
That's mild for him.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
June 22, 2010 at 5:02 am
Henrico,
While i take your point, this forum thread is titled 'Are the questions getting worse?', its quite clearly meant as an area for people to blow off steam. I wasnt rude to the poster and while i understand that we all have to learn and need support from time to time, there are certain pre-reqs and assumed comprehention of logic.
If i said to you that i took a clone image of a system yesterday but wanted to go back to a year ago and i had not backups, would you not think it strange? Or had just made an omlette but wanted to revert it to its egg'y form?
And thanks for your support Gail 🙂
Adam Zacks-------------------------------------------Be Nice, Or Leave
June 22, 2010 at 5:09 am
I don't really think the poster would consider staying on SSC if he saw your post regarding his question, do you?
Even though this forum is maybe for blowing off steam, it's surely not to insult people?
I understand that the concept of the question was not really ideal, but no need to be nasty I guess.
Anyway, back to work..
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This thing is addressing problems that dont exist. Its solution-ism at its worst. We are dumbing down machines that are inherently superior. - Gilfoyle
June 22, 2010 at 5:11 am
Henrico Bekker (6/22/2010)
I don't really think the poster would consider staying on SSC if he saw your post regarding his question, do you?Even though this forum is maybe for blowing off steam, it's surely not to insult people?
I understand that the concept of the question was not really ideal, but no need to be nasty I guess.
Anyway, back to work..
Ok. And now you have blown off some steam, do you feel better?
Adam Zacks-------------------------------------------Be Nice, Or Leave
June 22, 2010 at 5:25 am
Schadenfreude-Mei (6/22/2010)
Seriously, how do these people get to a point where they are even alowed to look at a live server :crazy:
I guess it's because there's no-one else to do it.
Sad fact: there are many more SQL Server installations in the world than good SQL Server people.
On the current discussion point: I think it's fine to post what you did here...but I am unsure what value your post on the source thread added.
Paul White
SQLPerformance.com
SQLkiwi blog
@SQL_Kiwi
June 22, 2010 at 5:31 am
Paul White NZ (6/22/2010)
Schadenfreude-Mei (6/22/2010)
Seriously, how do these people get to a point where they are even alowed to look at a live server :crazy:I guess it's because there's no-one else to do it.
Sad fact: there are many more SQL Server installations in the world than good SQL Server people.
On the current discussion point: I think it's fine to post what you did here...but I am unsure what value your post on the source thread added.
Hey Paul,
Call it frustration. Have you seen his latest? I try to help but it does get frustrating. Henrico only has to look at my post history to know that i generally really try to bend over backwards to help the newbie learners.
Hurumph!
Adam Zacks-------------------------------------------Be Nice, Or Leave
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