Are the posted questions getting worse?

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Are the posted questions getting worse?

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WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95461 More actions · Answer 1

Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Well unless it really upsets you, I'd like to decide where to spend those dollars 😛

So, if it does upset me, then you'll go ahead and buy it? :w00t:

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!

Links:
For better assistance in answering your questions
Performance Problems
Common date/time routines
Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004436 More actions · Answer 2

Greg Edwards-268690 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/27/2010)
I'd say avoid all large, generic ERP programs. I think they all suck. I worked for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, both of which were POS products in my mind.
From what I have found from our PeopleSoft support team, it got worse after they were bought by Oracle.
I hear rumblings of an Enterprise 1 project about to start.
Sounds like I need to take a long trip.
Greg E

On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

jcrawf02 SSC-Insane Points: 24198 More actions · Answer 3

Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
GilaMonster (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Here is some really good advice.
Ow.
Geez, some people. Clearly you should reboot the server.
Well, that treats the symptom, not the problem. What really needs to be done is to determine what is causing the growth and fix the code. Agreed?

You know that was a joke, right? I mean, I actually learned by hanging out with you guys that restarting the server dumps tempdb, and also that some folks think that's a solution, but I also learned that it doesn't fix nuthin' to do that.

---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]

"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."

WayneS SSC Guru Points: 95461 More actions · Answer 4

jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Jack Corbett (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Dave Ballantyne (5/27/2010)
I find intellisense and its most annoying when putting together test code , ie where im quite happy for a column called 'A','B' or 'ID'. Can never remember to hit 'ESC' rather than space or column. Though ,even then ,i find it of limited use in production quality code.
I find getting into the habit of typing SELECT * FROM dbo.Table T helps. Going back and typing "T." over the star brings up the column names.
Always using an alias is a good habit to get into IMO.
But you're using your snippet of ssf for SELECT * FROM, right? And tab to expand the columns? My laziness bone won't let me do more than that.
Tab to expand the columns, but i don't use the snippets and need to start. I'm too lazy to learn what the snippets are or to create my own.:w00t:
Totally need to, it's lazy^n
I've even added in some simple stupid ones like ob for Order By, gb for Group By, etc, just to save keystrokes and help the prompting part work smoother. Also modified a couple to add spaces on the end, which then activates the next prompt.
And then there are the fun ones like neo or yell, which I actually find quite useful some days...

While this doesn't help with IntelliSense, http://www.ssmstoolspack.com does have a code snippets feature that is pretty nice. For instance, I like typing "TALLY" and instantly getting a virtual tally table immediately in the query editor. Or "SPLIT" returns me with Jeff's nice DelimitedSplit function.

Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes

If you can't explain to another person how the code that you're copying from the internet works, then DON'T USE IT on a production system! After all, you will be the one supporting it!

Links:
For better assistance in answering your questions
Performance Problems
Common date/time routines
Understanding and Using APPLY Part 1 & Part 2

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 5

Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/27/2010)
I'd say avoid all large, generic ERP programs. I think they all suck. I worked for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, both of which were POS products in my mind.
From what I have found from our PeopleSoft support team, it got worse after they were bought by Oracle.
I hear rumblings of an Enterprise 1 project about to start.
Sounds like I need to take a long trip.
Greg E
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:

Ha - sounds like a product that MS ships called CRM. I'm gonna write a blog about it someday.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events

jcrawf02 SSC-Insane Points: 24198 More actions · Answer 6

WayneS (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Jack Corbett (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Dave Ballantyne (5/27/2010)
I find intellisense and its most annoying when putting together test code , ie where im quite happy for a column called 'A','B' or 'ID'. Can never remember to hit 'ESC' rather than space or column. Though ,even then ,i find it of limited use in production quality code.
I find getting into the habit of typing SELECT * FROM dbo.Table T helps. Going back and typing "T." over the star brings up the column names.
Always using an alias is a good habit to get into IMO.
But you're using your snippet of ssf for SELECT * FROM, right? And tab to expand the columns? My laziness bone won't let me do more than that.
Tab to expand the columns, but i don't use the snippets and need to start. I'm too lazy to learn what the snippets are or to create my own.:w00t:
Totally need to, it's lazy^n
I've even added in some simple stupid ones like ob for Order By, gb for Group By, etc, just to save keystrokes and help the prompting part work smoother. Also modified a couple to add spaces on the end, which then activates the next prompt.
And then there are the fun ones like neo or yell, which I actually find quite useful some days...
While this doesn't help with IntelliSense, http://www.ssmstoolspack.com does have a code snippets feature that is pretty nice. For instance, I like typing "TALLY" and instantly getting a virtual tally table immediately in the query editor. Or "SPLIT" returns me with Jeff's nice DelimitedSplit function.

ooh, very nice...thanks for that!

---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]

"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 7

jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
GilaMonster (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Here is some really good advice.
Ow.
Geez, some people. Clearly you should reboot the server.
Well, that treats the symptom, not the problem. What really needs to be done is to determine what is causing the growth and fix the code. Agreed?
You know that was a joke, right? I mean, I actually learned by hanging out with you guys that restarting the server dumps tempdb, and also that some folks think that's a solution, but I also learned that it doesn't fix nuthin' to do that.

Actually, no, you did it with a such a straight face. 😛

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150468 More actions · Answer 8

WayneS (5/27/2010)
Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Well unless it really upsets you, I'd like to decide where to spend those dollars 😛
So, if it does upset me, then you'll go ahead and buy it? :w00t:

Depends how much it upsets you 😉

Paul White
All articles available on SQL.kiwi
@SQL_Kiwi

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150468 More actions · Answer 9

Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Note to self: avoid PeopleSoft.
You have four too many letters on the end there.
Heh... ironicly, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in that. 😀

What, in thinking I should avoid people? :laugh:

Good job I'm not paranoid...

Paul White
All articles available on SQL.kiwi
@SQL_Kiwi

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004436 More actions · Answer 10

Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
jcrawf02 (5/27/2010)
Paul White NZ (5/27/2010)
Note to self: avoid PeopleSoft.
You have four too many letters on the end there.
Heh... ironicly, I'm glad to see I'm not alone in that. 😀
What, in thinking I should avoid people? :laugh:
Good job I'm not paranoid...

BWAA-HAAA!!! You certainly ARE paranoid! I was talking about me avoiding people hence the irony of not being alone in the thought. :hehe:

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Paul White SSC Guru Points: 150468 More actions · Answer 11

Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
BWAA-HAAA!!! You certainly ARE paranoid! I was talking about me avoiding people hence the irony of not being alone in the thought. :hehe:

Yeah I know 😀

Just occurred to me that there was more than one way to read it!!!

Funny.

Paul White
All articles available on SQL.kiwi
@SQL_Kiwi

tosscrosby SSCoach Points: 18045 More actions · Answer 12

Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:

Our issue came straight from the the vendor - PeopleSoft, no less! There is a step to confirm payroll checks, it calculates taxes, deductions, net pay, etc. For one of our entities of about 5,000 employees, the job would take nearly an hour (we had another 7 entities jobs queuing behind this, all of them ranting and raving!!). I wish I had the code to show but it was a convoluted select to determine if the employee existed in a certain table. We googled the issue and found an "unsupported" fix by another customer using "exists". Tried it out, tested like crazy and promoted the change. It reduced processing time to 5 minutes and we looked like stars. I always wondered how many other PS costumers simply ran with the "vanilla" code and stated to their clients "that's the way it was designed"???

-- You can't be late until you show up.

Greg Edwards-268690 SSC-Insane Points: 20680 More actions · Answer 13

CirquedeSQLeil (5/27/2010)
Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/27/2010)
I'd say avoid all large, generic ERP programs. I think they all suck. I worked for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, both of which were POS products in my mind.
From what I have found from our PeopleSoft support team, it got worse after they were bought by Oracle.
I hear rumblings of an Enterprise 1 project about to start.
Sounds like I need to take a long trip.
Greg E
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:
Ha - sounds like a product that MS ships called CRM. I'm gonna write a blog about it someday.

I could probably share a CRM story.:-D

Seems to be sold to the business as 'it can do anything'.

I wonder if 3rd party vendor and consulatants can be interchanged?

First load of a little over 100k customers took 32 hours.

Almost would be interesting to look at - kind of like Jeff's discovery.

Greg E

Lynn Pettis SSC Guru Points: 442467 More actions · Answer 14

Anyone with knowledge of Operations Manager, please see if you can help here.

SQLRNNR SSC Guru Points: 281334 More actions · Answer 15

Greg Edwards-268690 (5/28/2010)
CirquedeSQLeil (5/27/2010)
Jeff Moden (5/27/2010)
Greg Edwards-268690 (5/27/2010)
Lynn Pettis (5/27/2010)
Steve Jones - Editor (5/27/2010)
I'd say avoid all large, generic ERP programs. I think they all suck. I worked for JD Edwards and Peoplesoft, both of which were POS products in my mind.
From what I have found from our PeopleSoft support team, it got worse after they were bought by Oracle.
I hear rumblings of an Enterprise 1 project about to start.
Sounds like I need to take a long trip.
Greg E
On a similar note, I've been thrown into supporting Great Plains with mods from a 3rd party vendor (haven't quite figured that one out, yet :Whistling:)... The systems DBA I work with found a wonderful piece of code in one of their stored procedures that not only causes deadlocks on a regular basis but was also specifically coded to be the deadlock victim. Ya just gotta love it when the 3rd party knows their stuff is a POS and still ships the code :blink:. It was really bad... between the two of us, we got up to 6 WTF's when reviewing the code. In order to keep from violating our "support" contract, the two of us created a fix and submitted it to the GP vendor (that's likely to change in a hurry) and they approved it. I guess that's what some folks consider to be "agile" programming. "Ship it and let the customers fix it". Yeeee-haaaa! :sick:
Ha - sounds like a product that MS ships called CRM. I'm gonna write a blog about it someday.
I could probably share a CRM story.:-D
Seems to be sold to the business as 'it can do anything'.
I wonder if 3rd party vendor and consulatants can be interchanged?
First load of a little over 100k customers took 32 hours.
Almost would be interesting to look at - kind of like Jeff's discovery.
Greg E

The load is somewhat atrocious. We started with a contractor. The contractor delivered nothing but jr level code. To top it off, the code was crap. For one particular requirement they wrote RBAR inside of RBAR to perform the task. For 64000 rows, it took 8hrs to run. I rewrote it into a setbased method and it now takes less than 1 second to perform the entire batch. It was just really stupid stuff like that.

Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events