March 6, 2009 at 9:59 am
jcrawf02 (3/6/2009)
Chris Morris (3/6/2009)
In any case, the best or, more rarely, the correct answer here is usually blindingly obvious.To you, Chris, or to someone who knows that they're doing. Might not be to me, or to some other reader who doesn't have any experience in the topic at hand.
Which is precisely why, in many cases, experienced users will post things like, "Use Bob's answer", in the thread. To help pinpoint which of several solutions is "best".
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 6, 2009 at 10:08 am
jcrawf02 (3/6/2009)
Chris Morris (3/6/2009)
In any case, the best or, more rarely, the correct answer here is usually blindingly obvious.To you, Chris, or to someone who knows that they're doing. Might not be to me, or to some other reader who doesn't have any experience in the topic at hand.
Sorry J I should have expanded on that - which GSquared has generously done, thanks.
"To you, Chris, or to someone who knows what they're doing." Aw, you really know how to hurt a guy 🙁
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
March 6, 2009 at 10:15 am
Chris Morris (3/6/2009)
jcrawf02 (3/6/2009)
Chris Morris (3/6/2009)
In any case, the best or, more rarely, the correct answer here is usually blindingly obvious.To you, Chris, or to someone who knows that they're doing. Might not be to me, or to some other reader who doesn't have any experience in the topic at hand.
Sorry J I should have expanded on that - which GSquared has generously done, thanks.
"To you, Chris, or to someone who knows what they're doing." Aw, you really know how to hurt a guy 🙁
They weren't EXclusive, they were INclusive.
"To you, Chris, (an example of) someone who knows what they're doing"
Sorry, over, commented, my, response. ,,,,,,
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 6, 2009 at 11:25 am
GSquared (3/6/2009)
jcrawf02 (3/6/2009)
Chris Morris (3/6/2009)
In any case, the best or, more rarely, the correct answer here is usually blindingly obvious.To you, Chris, or to someone who knows that they're doing. Might not be to me, or to some other reader who doesn't have any experience in the topic at hand.
Which is precisely why, in many cases, experienced users will post things like, "Use Bob's answer", in the thread. To help pinpoint which of several solutions is "best".
Yep. Even though I sometimes feel really silly posting something like that, but you see a strong solution and then a weak solution, it just seems important to point out the strong solution.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 6, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Isn't any kind of ranking a subjective decision unless there are ranking rules that are widely accepted?
Based on that I think in a forum like this one there are at least 3 kinds of ranking methods:
1 - ranking by the OP based on his requirements and how he could use the answer
2 - ranking by other users on how they could use a given answer to solve their problem (and therewith maybe avoiding opening a separate thread) and
3 - ranking by (admitted) guru's whether they agree to the given answer as being appropriate or not (usually together with a detailed explanation - at least if the judgement is "solution not recommended")
And, as already stated by others, this is still a discussion forum and not a FAQ catalog, where you usually have just one answer to a given question (assuming, this should be the best one...)
I, personally, prefer the current none-ranking-system since it "forces" me to read/scan the "whole story" before I decide whether to look deeper into a solution or not.
Btw: A ranking is already possible. E.g. the OP just could add a final post stating what he ended up with (including a link to the post he used as a starter for his solution). Same with other users: Add a post stating "post#.... worked fine for me as well". I haven't seen that many posts of those kind yet... But what I've seen on almost every post are highly qualified statements from the guru's and other's. Especially, if there's a solution proposed that looked fine from the first view but shouldn't be recommended based on the knowledge an experience those folks have...
So what would be the benefit of a ranking? I still don't get it...
March 6, 2009 at 4:10 pm
I don't see how comments are rated in the New Scientist thing. I missing something?
I'm not sure of the benefit to users of ranking things. I guess they could find the "best answers", but honestly most people don't do a lot of searching. They post their question.
Ranking might benefit answers, gaining them a better "score" or ranking of their knowledge, but don't get that now?
March 6, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Steve Jones - Editor (3/6/2009)
I don't see how comments are rated in the New Scientist thing. I missing something?I'm not sure of the benefit to users of ranking things. I guess they could find the "best answers", but honestly most people don't do a lot of searching. They post their question.
Ranking might benefit answers, gaining them a better "score" or ranking of their knowledge, but don't get that now?
And who would do such ranking? The folks asking the questions? How would they know a good solution from a bad solution? After all, they're the ones asking for the help on a subject they don't know.
As someone else cleanly pointed out, this is not a FAQ with a single solution per listing... it's a forum. The good folks that are here can instantly see a bad or performance challenged problem and will frequently take the time to write some code and let it do the talking so far as ranking solutions goes. Proof by code and performance measurement is the best ranking system there is. We don't need to muddy the waters by letting unqualified folks click on some number even if it's the OP.
Bottom line? I wouldn't change a bloody thing... let 'er be.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 6, 2009 at 5:07 pm
After considerable pondering, I've eventually come around to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I know I prefer this forum, and it's because there is so much hard analysis to be found here. Anyone who takes the time to read threads (in their entirety) is going to get an education. Ranking answers isn't going to make anything better.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 7, 2009 at 2:00 am
Steve Jones - Editor (3/6/2009)
I don't see how comments are rated in the New Scientist thing. I missing something?
Not really, Steve. It's simply an example of where ranking works well, the point being that it can work, but probably not here.
Here's a good sample chosen because somewhere out there is an MVP licking his wounds, when of course he should instead seek expert help:hehe:
For fast, accurate and documented assistance in answering your questions, please read this article.
Understanding and using APPLY, (I) and (II) Paul White
Hidden RBAR: Triangular Joins / The "Numbers" or "Tally" Table: What it is and how it replaces a loop Jeff Moden
March 7, 2009 at 9:10 am
The solution may be simply articles on topics that are repeated over and over again. Of course then the issue comes up about whether or not the articles are ranked. I would feel comfortable relying on a system that let me see who gave what rank to an article. There are a dozen people here whose opininons I trust. Of course I've seen at least one article where the solution suggested wasn't all that great, but the discussion that followed was a real education.
Steve, maybe everyone's account could have a suggested resources page, sort of like the briefcase, only viewable by the general public.
__________________________________________________
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. -- Friedrich Schiller
Stop, children, what's that sound? Everybody look what's going down. -- Stephen Stills
March 7, 2009 at 9:12 am
As someone else cleanly pointed out, this is not a FAQ with a single solution per listing... it's a forum. The good folks that are here can instantly see a bad or performance challenged problem and will frequently take the time to write some code and let it do the talking so far as ranking solutions goes. Proof by code and performance measurement is the best ranking system there is. We don't need to muddy the waters by letting unqualified folks click on some number even if it's the OP.
Bottom line? I wouldn't change a bloody thing... let 'er be.
Agreed - if you want to see an implementation of how not great that can be - get yourself a subscription to ExpertsExchange. People with incredibly high "approval" ratings and stupid answers, giving you attitude and piss poor answers.
I'll take the "survive the open air critique model and maybe you didn't say something stupid" model we have going here.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
March 7, 2009 at 4:37 pm
We've talked about doing something with the briefcase, more like a "clipboard" of stuff, but making it public might help.
We have 4 or 5 articles on T-logs, but I think lots of people that need help don't get those, they just post a question.
March 9, 2009 at 10:06 am
Steve Jones - Editor (3/6/2009)
I'll check them out, but they appear to be down now. Or down from the Denver area.
Site's back up now. http://sadeveloper.net/forums/default.aspx
Here's a thread with two replies highlighted http://sadeveloper.net/forums/thread/17055.aspx
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 9, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Thanks, I assume the color codes mean something?
March 10, 2009 at 1:42 am
The ones in green are the flagged answers.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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