March 5, 2009 at 10:08 am
OK, my apologies for missing out on this for a few days. In Seattle I didn't have a lot of time for threads and didn't get to this one. I should have likely stepped in earlier, and I thought deletion was disabled for posts. I'll correct that.
I think people should be able to edit their posts, but deleting them causes issues in the discussion. So post what you want, but be aware, it will be out there.
Now, on to the original question. Here are my thoughts.
1. There might be value to an "this answered my question" marking for a post. However I don't want that to close the thread or prevent further discussion.
2. There is value to people posting a 2nd time that confirms the advice. I don't know about you, but getting answer online from someone should be viewed with a grain of salt. Having someone say "yeah that is good advice" has always given me confidence.
3. People do give bad advice. And while it might solve an issue, that doesn't mean it's the best advice. OPs aren't necessarily qualified to judge advice, so having them mark something as "answered" might not be the best thing.
4. People do post to get up their post count. Nothing can be done here. They do it on MSDN as well. Post count != expertise. That comes over time from the quality of posts. I trust others to note if someone is making posts that aren't useful.
5. I'd rather have a "this worked for me" marking for the OP.
6. The abandoned idea is not a bad one. Have to think about that a bit.
March 5, 2009 at 10:09 am
Jack,
Good thought on the rating. Not sure we can move that to a post level, but it's something to consider.
March 5, 2009 at 11:05 am
I really like having the OP state whether a particular answer helped them or not and why. I know it helps me when I'm trying to figure out whether something will work for me.
--
Kevin Carlin.
March 5, 2009 at 1:24 pm
KevinC. (3/5/2009)
I really like having the OP state whether a particular answer helped them or not and why. I know it helps me when I'm trying to figure out whether something will work for me.--
Kevin Carlin.
Heh... now all we have to do is figure out how to get the OP to actually do that... right now, it's sometimes a real chore just to get the OP to actually state what the problem is never mind whether something actually helped. Most OPs take the info and run, never to be seen again until they have another question. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 5, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Jeff Moden (3/5/2009)
KevinC. (3/5/2009)
I really like having the OP state whether a particular answer helped them or not and why. I know it helps me when I'm trying to figure out whether something will work for me.--
Kevin Carlin.
Heh... now all we have to do is figure out how to get the OP to actually do that... right now, it's sometimes a real chore just to get the OP to actually state what the problem is never mind whether something actually helped. Most OPs take the info and run, never to be seen again until they have another question. 😀
That's exactly why I don't like the "ratings systems" used by certain sites. The people you help mostly just read it, try it, like it, and never come back to the thread, so you miss out on positive reviews. Meanwhile, someone who puts a typo in the code you suggested gets an error message and comes back, all upset, and posts a negative "point" or "low review".
Everyone who has ever dealt with customer service knows that people are very, very likely to complain if anything goes wrong, but also very, very unlikely to write/call/whatever if they are pleased. Some small percentage of the population will expend effort on things like, "I just wanted to send you an e-mail that your product was really useful to me and I'm very glad I bought it". Just about the inverse ratio will call and tell you, "This thing is a piece of junk! How was I supposed to know that you have to plug the power cord into a quote-live-unquote socket that actually has electricity in it? My lawyer's gonna be all over you guys!"
Number of posts doesn't assert anything, but it's a better metric than anything subjective.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 5, 2009 at 2:17 pm
GSquared (3/5/2009)
That's exactly why I don't like the "ratings systems" used by certain sites. The people you help mostly just read it, try it, like it, and never come back to the thread, so you miss out on positive reviews. Meanwhile, someone who puts a typo in the code you suggested gets an error message and comes back, all upset, and posts a negative "point" or "low review".
Everyone who has ever dealt with customer service knows that people are very, very likely to complain if anything goes wrong, but also very, very unlikely to write/call/whatever if they are pleased. Some small percentage of the population will expend effort on things like, "I just wanted to send you an e-mail that your product was really useful to me and I'm very glad I bought it". Just about the inverse ratio will call and tell you, "This thing is a piece of junk! How was I supposed to know that you have to plug the power cord into a quote-live-unquote socket that actually has electricity in it? My lawyer's gonna be all over you guys!"
This is why I suggested moving/adding the Thread Ranking feature to the post, similar to articles. Then anyone who reads the thread can "vote" for the answer they see as the best answer posted. Granted this doesn't mean that there won't be a better solution posted AFTER some votes have been cast, but it is better than expecting the OP to select as they may have taken the first post that worked and mark it as accepted or good, whatever, when someone later posts a better answer.
Shoot, I can't count the number of times I have posted an answer that "works", but then later had someone like yourself post a better solution. Usually in this case I will post again telling the OP to use the better solution, but with a ranking system I would also rank the better answer.
It's not perfect, but then you can have the real guru's also involved in selecting the better answers.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
March 5, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Something like that has some workability, Jack. But for a ratings system to work, I'd like to know who posted the rating.
For example, there have been plenty of people I've seen post solutions, who if they said an answer was "5 out of 5", I'd never trust their evaluation. On the other hand, if Jeff or Gail says an answer is a 5, I'm inclined to take a closer look at it to see if there's anything novel or new.
It's like movie reviews. There's a movie reviewer who writes for the Houston Chronicle, that I absolutely trust, because I know if he hates a movie, I'm going to love it, and vice versa. Totally reliable.
How would you feel about a post that had an average rating of 3 (on a 1-5 scale)? Seems like it might be an ok post, right? Nothing spectacular, but should be acceptible, right? What about if you found out that Jeff, Gail, Grant, Steve, Brad, Phil, Matt and I all gave it 1s, but eight people you've never even heard of before all gave it 5s? Suddenly that 3 seems a little suspect. How about if you researched those eight people and found out that all of them believe that not using global cursors on global temp tables is a violation of Object Oriented Programing principles and that "all you set-based idiots need to get with the times!"? Suddenly that 3 is not just suspect but really kind of scary!
Okay, that's a little far-fetched. Or is it?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 5, 2009 at 2:35 pm
GSquared (3/5/2009)
Number of posts doesn't assert anything, but it's a better metric than anything subjective.
Heh... Yeah... especially where I'm concerned... everyone knows I do nothing but write a couple "hunert" posts a day that simply say "Kilroy was here". 😛
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 5, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Heh... well said, Bob... my opinion is, "We don' need no stinkin' ratin' system." RTFP instead. 😀
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
March 5, 2009 at 2:40 pm
GSquared (3/5/2009)
all of them believe that not using global cursors on global temp tables is a violation of Object Oriented Programing principles and that "all you set-based idiots need to get with the times!"
*****URGENT****!!! Must re-write my global cursors to meet standards listed above!!! Plz hlp! Thanks!!
:hehe:
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
March 5, 2009 at 2:51 pm
jcrawf02 (3/5/2009)
GSquared (3/5/2009)
all of them believe that not using global cursors on global temp tables is a violation of Object Oriented Programing principles and that "all you set-based idiots need to get with the times!"*****URGENT****!!! Must re-write my global cursors to meet standards listed above!!! Plz hlp! Thanks!!
Start by making them DYNAMIC, SCROLL, UPDATE. Nest them for greater effect.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
March 5, 2009 at 2:57 pm
GSquared (3/5/2009)
Something like that has some workability, Jack. But for a ratings system to work, I'd like to know who posted the rating.For example, there have been plenty of people I've seen post solutions, who if they said an answer was "5 out of 5", I'd never trust their evaluation. On the other hand, if Jeff or Gail says an answer is a 5, I'm inclined to take a closer look at it to see if there's anything novel or new.
It's like movie reviews. There's a movie reviewer who writes for the Houston Chronicle, that I absolutely trust, because I know if he hates a movie, I'm going to love it, and vice versa. Totally reliable.
How would you feel about a post that had an average rating of 3 (on a 1-5 scale)? Seems like it might be an ok post, right? Nothing spectacular, but should be acceptible, right? What about if you found out that Jeff, Gail, Grant, Steve, Brad, Phil, Matt and I all gave it 1s, but eight people you've never even heard of before all gave it 5s? Suddenly that 3 seems a little suspect. How about if you researched those eight people and found out that all of them believe that not using global cursors on global temp tables is a violation of Object Oriented Programing principles and that "all you set-based idiots need to get with the times!"? Suddenly that 3 is not just suspect but really kind of scary!
Okay, that's a little far-fetched. Or is it?
Certainly it is not perfect. I just put that out because I have seen the request for posts to be marked as answered or accepted or whatever come through more than once. I don't like the "accepted" solution because it requires the OP to come back and accept it and because I think it will limit discussion as I know I wouldn't go into a thread that is marked as "answered". I'd rather spend my time helping someone who hasn't gotten much or any help yet.
Then I happened to notice the Rate the thread functionality and thought that instead of marking a post as accepted ranking a solution might be a bit better, especially for those who come upon a thread through a search and see 5 different solutions and wonder which one may be the best.
Yeah, the quality of the voters certainly make a difference, but how often have you gone into a thread and seen a good solution and just jumped out? With the ranking you could rank the solution and then jump out.
Just trying to find a compromise as no ranking or points solution is perfect. I don't necessarily think there is a need for it, but like I said the request has come through more than once.
The only thing I'd like to see added to the points system is author/contributor points, but don't ask me how to make that work.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
March 5, 2009 at 3:30 pm
GilaMonster (3/5/2009)
jcrawf02 (3/5/2009)
GSquared (3/5/2009)
all of them believe that not using global cursors on global temp tables is a violation of Object Oriented Programing principles and that "all you set-based idiots need to get with the times!"*****URGENT****!!! Must re-write my global cursors to meet standards listed above!!! Plz hlp! Thanks!!
Start by making them DYNAMIC, SCROLL, UPDATE. Nest them for greater effect.
I was kind of aiming for "really, really bad", not for "cataclysmic, existence threatening". 🙂 If I were, I'd have mentioned that the global temp tables need to be single-column XML data-type tables purely for object-persistence. Or at least name-value pair structures.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 5, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Jeff Moden (3/5/2009)
GSquared (3/5/2009)
Number of posts doesn't assert anything, but it's a better metric than anything subjective.Heh... Yeah... especially where I'm concerned... everyone knows I do nothing but write a couple "hunert" posts a day that simply say "Kilroy was here". 😛
Yeah. But do you do that Post By Agonizing Post?
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
March 5, 2009 at 3:40 pm
A lot of what Gus has listed are reasons I'm concerned about this.
I think things work well as is. Relatively few people would likely use any "improvements"
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