March 8, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item An Integrated Process for Software Delivery.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 9, 2014 at 7:06 pm
Grant,
Thanks for this article. I relate to this so much.
I do want to be responsive to needs of operations but, I hate how often I am seen as the "evil DBA" when I simply question why something is being requested and not doing a rubber stamp version of a code review before deploying into a production server.
March 10, 2014 at 3:16 am
jaminbw (3/9/2014)
Grant,Thanks for this article. I relate to this so much.
I do want to be responsive to needs of operations but, I hate how often I am seen as the "evil DBA" when I simply question why something is being requested and not doing a rubber stamp version of a code review before deploying into a production server.
Yep, been there. That's at least part of how I got my "Scary DBA" nickname. All this only works if everyone works together. I'm not suggesting that DBAs just lay over, just that we make the effort to cross that chasm.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 10, 2014 at 3:25 am
I find it frustrating that, from the software development side, when attempting to engage the DevOps (under whatever moniker) to find out how the development team can deliver in a way they want to receive together with any tools and utilities that they would like (e.g. deployment/configuration/installation validators) that they often fail to respond or push back until the very last minute. Additional frustration rises when they then use their veto to stop a rollout and everyone looks at the development team and considers it their failure. I am not talking days but months of attempted engagement. I see it time and time again. Maybe they are overloaded, however, in my experience this is a vicious cycle which they can break when there is a helpful development team willing to cooperate.
I have seen the opposite too; development teams throwing their software in an unpackaged form expecting it to be delivered there and then. This, I should imagine, is where their frustration lies.
This article talks about the common goal and the method of resolution that can be summed up in a single word: cooperate!!!
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 10, 2014 at 7:56 am
One word for the article: Absolutely.
It does help if the developers and DBA's have worn one another's shoes. While swapping jobs is great however it is done, there are many ways experience can be shared. The key is communication. And when communication fails, that generally means there has not been enough communication. It only comes up short when failure is someone's hidden goal. That does happen, and if there is no way around it, my solution is to put on my walking shoes.
PS. Have to like "sclerotic." And quotes from Teddy.
March 10, 2014 at 8:26 am
Ha! Thanks.
Been accused of being pompous lately and not sure I should be using words like sclerotic. But as long as people know what they mean and they do a good job of describing the situation...
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 10, 2014 at 8:36 am
jaminbw (3/9/2014)
Grant,Thanks for this article. I relate to this so much.
I do want to be responsive to needs of operations but, I hate how often I am seen as the "evil DBA" when I simply question why something is being requested and not doing a rubber stamp version of a code review before deploying into a production server.
Agree - I tried to get away from the stereotypical "NO" dba to one who asks "why" to a lot of requests. It's taken a few months here with the limited team that there is to get them to realise I am not being akward - I'm actually trying to make life better for both of us.
-------------------------------Posting Data Etiquette - Jeff Moden [/url]Smart way to ask a question
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand (the world). There is no such thing as a dumb question. ― Carl Sagan
I would never join a club that would allow me as a member - Groucho Marx
March 10, 2014 at 8:55 am
Stuart Davies (3/10/2014)
jaminbw (3/9/2014)
Grant,Thanks for this article. I relate to this so much.
I do want to be responsive to needs of operations but, I hate how often I am seen as the "evil DBA" when I simply question why something is being requested and not doing a rubber stamp version of a code review before deploying into a production server.
Agree - I tried to get away from the stereotypical "NO" dba to one who asks "why" to a lot of requests. It's taken a few months here with the limited team that there is to get them to realise I am not being akward - I'm actually trying to make life better for both of us.
Sounds like a great way to approach things.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 11, 2014 at 7:26 am
Gary Varga (3/10/2014)
I find it frustrating that, from the software development side, when attempting to engage the DevOps (under whatever moniker) to find out how the development team can deliver in a way they want to receive together with any tools and utilities that they would like (e.g. deployment/configuration/installation validators) that they often fail to respond or push back until the very last minute. Additional frustration rises when they then use their veto to stop a rollout and everyone looks at the development team and considers it their failure. I am not talking days but months of attempted engagement. I see it time and time again. Maybe they are overloaded, however, in my experience this is a vicious cycle which they can break when there is a helpful development team willing to cooperate.I have seen the opposite too; development teams throwing their software in an unpackaged form expecting it to be delivered there and then. This, I should imagine, is where their frustration lies.
This article talks about the common goal and the method of resolution that can be summed up in a single word: cooperate!!!
I agree.
I have had software sent to me for "code review" on a Friday at 4:45 for a deployment that was expected on Monday morning. When you ask for changes in that short time line the developer was upset and pushed that this was expected delivered.
I have also seen The failure to respond from a DBA because someone sending in changes burned them with code that should have been tested better last time.
So some times it is being overloaded but, other times in that case it is just picking to work on the issue when you have plenty of time you can set aside. I will often respond fast and move quickly on deliverables from some one if I have not had problems with deploying things for them before but, wait until I can devote a whole day to a deployment for other people. Such as the person that sent code late of Friday and wrecked my weekend plans.
March 11, 2014 at 7:36 am
jaminbw (3/11/2014)
Gary Varga (3/10/2014)
I find it frustrating that, from the software development side, when attempting to engage the DevOps (under whatever moniker) to find out how the development team can deliver in a way they want to receive together with any tools and utilities that they would like (e.g. deployment/configuration/installation validators) that they often fail to respond or push back until the very last minute. Additional frustration rises when they then use their veto to stop a rollout and everyone looks at the development team and considers it their failure. I am not talking days but months of attempted engagement. I see it time and time again. Maybe they are overloaded, however, in my experience this is a vicious cycle which they can break when there is a helpful development team willing to cooperate.I have seen the opposite too; development teams throwing their software in an unpackaged form expecting it to be delivered there and then. This, I should imagine, is where their frustration lies.
This article talks about the common goal and the method of resolution that can be summed up in a single word: cooperate!!!
I agree.
I have had software sent to me for "code review" on a Friday at 4:45 for a deployment that was expected on Monday morning. When you ask for changes in that short time line the developer was upset and pushed that this was expected delivered.
I have also seen The failure to respond from a DBA because someone sending in changes burned them with code that should have been tested better last time.
So some times it is being overloaded but, other times in that case it is just picking to work on the issue when you have plenty of time you can set aside. I will often respond fast and move quickly on deliverables from some one if I have not had problems with deploying things for them before but, wait until I can devote a whole day to a deployment for other people. Such as the person that sent code late of Friday and wrecked my weekend plans.
All these are pointing out that getting involved in the entire development process is a must. Rather than acting as a gatekeeper where all you see is the last and final step before production, and, as you say, you have no time to get changes implemented, you need to be there from the start. Seeing the code as it comes out the door reduces the amount of review at the last possible minute you should be doing.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
March 11, 2014 at 8:48 pm
Thanks Grant. I do feel that way as well. I am hopeful this is changing. I am one of only 2 DBA's where I work and the code I was talking about came from one of the currently 27 BI reporting team people. I just feel stretched very thin. I often don't have much time to be part of the process. I am working on it but it's a process.
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