September 14, 2009 at 9:46 am
dma (9/14/2009)
Hi Silverfox, PASS 24 hours was not American, it was a virtual conference targeted all over the world. In fact majority attendees were from other parts of the world. I do understand the limitations of UGs not in America but lot of work is being done to improve that.I will read and respond to the other post and blog you said and am sorry if whatever I said insulted you. I counsel lot of people in my UG - the way this works for most people is like this - if you are putting in too many hours that take away the time you need to learn then it is like driving without having time for gas. You have to set aside some time for learning, how you do it is your choice, a few hours a day, or once a year or whatever. But one does not survive the industry without that .You are makign jokes on people who have pcs at home or think that attending conferences is always paid for by employer. Neither of those things are true. People who have pcs at home have healthy active families and they treat it as career necessity, not luxury. I attended my first conference on my own, even now at every interview i go i say i will go on my own if they dont send me since the payoffs are huge compared to what I invest. I am not saying you or others to do it just that it is always paid for employers is totally wrong.
Vendors like Red Gate and Quest have free virtual seminars too, there is no shortage of them nowadays. Bottom line where there is a will there is a way. It is not the same for all of us but this industry has no shortage of options for those who are open to them and willing to try.
sigh, I dont take offense at your comments, I understand your mindset and appreciate the points you are making.
If I take your comments in context, either I have the most fuel efficent car on the market or I am very lucky not to have crashed and burned by now. I have been driving this car for over 15 years.
I never said that having a computer at home was a joke, or were you implying that i was?
Maybe to put it in context, I am freelance, my exposure to other DBA are, mostly people who also contract. that can put a different spin on your comments. and being freelance in the uk is different to what some people stateside consider consulting (consultants).
We can always agree to disagree, that is the whole point of topics like these 😀
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September 14, 2009 at 11:02 am
Yeah and I'd like to understand your POV also. How is freelancing different from consulting mainly is one thing i'd love to understand more. There are various levels of these things everywhere - super high end very highly paid MVP book author consultants, then various degrees below them. I was a consultant for a short period of time and then switched to full time employment simply because consulting even if you have skills is lot about having right contacts and I was not great at that and I did not like gaps in employment with no money. Mostly the kind of stuff I told you on training - it is more a necessity than something I enjoy, but just a necessity i am not grumpy about since it pays off and i enjoy intellectual challenges. Like you i have a family and i dont really eat SQL for dinner, i mean some folks are like that but am not one of them, I've been burnt hard being short on knowledge and try to avoid that that is all - and try to tell folks what i know.
September 15, 2009 at 2:02 am
dma (9/14/2009)
Yeah and I'd like to understand your POV also. How is freelancing different from consulting mainly is one thing i'd love to understand more. There are various levels of these things everywhere - super high end very highly paid MVP book author consultants, then various degrees below them. I was a consultant for a short period of time and then switched to full time employment simply because consulting even if you have skills is lot about having right contacts and I was not great at that and I did not like gaps in employment with no money. Mostly the kind of stuff I told you on training - it is more a necessity than something I enjoy, but just a necessity i am not grumpy about since it pays off and i enjoy intellectual challenges. Like you i have a family and i dont really eat SQL for dinner, i mean some folks are like that but am not one of them, I've been burnt hard being short on knowledge and try to avoid that that is all - and try to tell folks what i know.
Well I already had that discussion with gail already about consultants. 😛
Being freelance/contract is normally a one person outfit, being a consultant normally means that you work for a consultancy, which normally implies that you work with others, or there are other consultants that also work under that consultancy. A consultancy supplies services, for which you or another of the consultants does the work. the consultancy also finds you the work. also you dont always have to interview for the role. bear in mine that outsourcing companies supply 'Consultants'. some people will disagree with these comments but it is purely my opinion. I feel insulted if someone refers to me as a consultant 😛
I am not sure how being a consultant works in the US. but in the UK everything comes down to the rate that you are prepared to do a contract for. and that is the killing point for a lot of people. Companies will accept a lower skilled person, if they drop their rate to what the client wants to pay. It makes a complete mockery of experience, certification, training. that is why I am so passionate about how little some things like certification can mean to getting a contract role. certification can help in fulltime roles as it either means that the new employer doesnt have to pay for it, or it can be a sweetner to get you to join.
And to be honest, you cannot get every role, and if your knowledge isnt enough for a particular role, dont sweat it, just move on and find another.
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September 15, 2009 at 6:54 am
In US we have two types of consultants broadly speaking - the 'body shopping' kind who are loaned out via outsourcing agencies and those that are really experts at what they do. The second lot usually stay attached to consulting companies since it is much easier to find projects that way that is all. There is nothing derogatory in that.
Of course everything goes by rates, most companies have a budget and in some cases it is penny pinching and in some cases it is genuinely limited by economy and budgetary reasons. But the secret is this..if your knowledge is something that will fix the issue for them guaranteed, save them a few hours arguing with the microsoft support guy, something that is hard to find - they will pay the monies to get you in. It has happened time and again even with small companies I know, they know how valuable their time is and they are willign to pay more for somebody who knows what he/she is doing.
My goal is to be one of them. The majority people I know are like that too. It is a huge and very significant progress in your career if you cross the stage when you are not dumped due to budgets or competition but hired of your knowledge and expertise. If you can't work to get that knowledge and expertise but want to be treated and accepted with less competition - sorry that is having the cake and eating it also and just does not happen. I am not interested in fighting the competion rather more interested in gaining enough expertise so that the work comes to me..and that is what I learn repeatedly from the people who have made it there.
P.S: I did think you had more to say after Grant pitched in for you, but I think my initial surmise was right!!!
September 15, 2009 at 7:33 am
Appreciate the information, that explains a lot of things about the US for me.
As for the other topic, I appreciate the frank honesty, even if it has got a bit heated. this is what forums are about, to agree to disagree. and if i wasnt in the uk, but stateside, having a drink with fellow dbas tends to iron out issues that posting in forums cannot.
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September 15, 2009 at 7:40 am
Thank you, and am sorry if the subject got heated, or I offended you in any way.
We dont boast of a great pub culture in the US of A but we do get together to discuss and talk a whole lot. Do consider visiting sometime!!
Kind Regards
September 15, 2009 at 7:53 am
dma (9/15/2009)
Thank you, and am sorry if the subject got heated, or I offended you in any way.We dont boast of a great pub culture in the US of A but we do get together to discuss and talk a whole lot. Do consider visiting sometime!!
Kind Regards
Dont really travel outside of the UK unless it is work related unfortunately, had 1 holiday in last 15 years lol but I appreciate the offer. 😀
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September 15, 2009 at 8:03 am
Wow..one holiday in 15 years...now that is something..i thought we were workaholics out here in the states..:)
September 15, 2009 at 10:31 am
Hey Fox and others like him, going back to the original post.
I truly envy what you don't have. Here's the other side of the coin:
1. Endless supply of hardware from the newest lightweight netbook to a 22lb IBM Desktop replacment laptop. Blackberries, HP 16-way servers. A SAN so big I don't even know how many Tbs are free because it doesn't matter.
2. Access to every app Microsoft has ever written, plus countless other apps.
3. Access to every book MS has written, but I use Google instead. MSDN Subscrition, and so-on.
4. No degree, no cert. All self-taught SQL for the last 10 years. (Before that, IBM System 36 in the 80's, and IBM AS400 in the 90's.) I had a Apple in '84.
5. Got a license, but drive a 20-year old truck. Live alone. My partner keeps his own place because I work too much at home.
6. I work 24-7. I get over a hundred automated emails a day on systems status. I've worked on my vacations, at the grocery store, in the movie theater during Star Trek. I've had two real vactions without work in 10 years -Italy in 1999 and Montana last month. No cell service in Glacier Natl Park! I had 2,000 emails when we drove out of the park.
7. Very average salary.
So...are you sure that you really are suffering? Or maybe just enjoying life?
The grass really is always greener on the other side of the fence.
September 15, 2009 at 2:30 pm
UAMCRay (9/15/2009)
6. I work 24-7. I get over a hundred automated emails a day on systems status. I've worked on my vacations, at the grocery store, in the movie theater during Star Trek. I've had two real vactions without work in 10 years -Italy in 1999 and Montana last month. No cell service in Glacier Natl Park! I had 2,000 emails when we drove out of the park.
7. Very average salary.
So...are you sure that you really are suffering? Or maybe just enjoying life?
If this IS your life, I feel sorry for you!
-- You can't be late until you show up.
September 15, 2009 at 4:01 pm
UAMCRay (9/15/2009)
Endless supply of hardware from the newest lightweight netbook to a 22lb IBM Desktop replacment laptop
You are not saying the replacement laptop weighs in at 22lbs I hope?
A SAN so big I don't even know how many Tbs are free because it doesn't matter
Don't say you are working at the new MS lab?
Very average salary.
Now that's very relative, I earn quite a nice salary plus bonusses and dividends down here in South Africa, but I still drive a bloody rusty 13 year old VW Kombi with just under 250.000 km on the clock, not really being able to replace it with an equivalent as this one was back then when I originally bought it. Sigh. Maybe I should have gotten that certification 10 years ago after all. Just kidding 🙂
September 17, 2009 at 3:27 am
tosscrosby-640630 (9/15/2009)
UAMCRay (9/15/2009)
6. I work 24-7. I get over a hundred automated emails a day on systems status. I've worked on my vacations, at the grocery store, in the movie theater during Star Trek. I've had two real vactions without work in 10 years -Italy in 1999 and Montana last month. No cell service in Glacier Natl Park! I had 2,000 emails when we drove out of the park.
7. Very average salary.
So...are you sure that you really are suffering? Or maybe just enjoying life?
If this IS your life, I feel sorry for you!
Whatever rocks your boat, is what I say. Some people like to be that busy and thrive on it. Not my cup of tea, but then again, outside of the office, i dont have a computer, so working from home or remotely is a non-starter for me. and sometimes that is the best way to be.
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September 17, 2009 at 6:52 am
Hi Silverfox..have not heard of many DBAs who can afford to be that way..i'd love to leave my work at home too but as a DBA i am expected to look into critical off hour issues if any..and there have been many :)) If I say I wont log in off hours i would not land the job period, in most places. There are places that use that to over work you, ther are places that need it for a legitimate reason...most DBAs are on call off hours if something goes wrong..comments ?:)
September 17, 2009 at 7:18 am
dma-669038 (9/17/2009)
Hi Silverfox..have not heard of many DBAs who can afford to be that way..i'd love to leave my work at home too but as a DBA i am expected to look into critical off hour issues if any..and there have been many :)) If I say I wont log in off hours i would not land the job period, in most places. There are places that use that to over work you, ther are places that need it for a legitimate reason...most DBAs are on call off hours if something goes wrong..comments ?:)
ok, it might be different in the US. But for most of the companies in the UK I have worked for, working out of hours or on-call is not part of a standard employment contract, even for fulltime employees. and it is negiogated separately. I have done on-call before and 24/7 support but i normally relocate to wherever I am working and i walk into the office if needed, and that can be 2am in the morning. Contract staff tend to get paid more than fulltime employees for being on call. so most companies will not ask contract staff to go on call, as it costs too much. speaking from experience on that one. as I was one of the DBA's that supported the opening of Terminal 5 at Heathrow. I was working the midnight shift for that one and I was in one of the offices in heathrow, even though I was based in gatwick, when I worked for the airports.
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September 17, 2009 at 7:23 am
I was one of the DBA's that supported the opening of Terminal 5 at Heathrow.
You admit to being involved in that fiasco!!!!:w00t:
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