October 14, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Afraid of Help
October 15, 2009 at 12:15 am
The points mentioned are perfectly right.
People after trying on their own could feel that may be they have just missed some points towards the solution and some one else must have experienced similar kind of problems - who would be able to help them instantly with out much delay in time and hence instead of seeking professional training (which could take lot of time for approvals and follow all the processess in line) just try to get solutions easy way out.
October 15, 2009 at 2:24 am
Good points, it does ring pretty true about people being out of their league, too many people i think are either under a lot of pressure from management or have been less than honest with their employer about the depth of their skills and knowledge.
There does seem to be a lot of High Availability and clustering questions asked recently where you can tell the op does not have the slightest idea about what he/she is trying to achieve. There are always good white papers on how to do most High Availability but even when those articles are pointed out to them. They want hand holding and a step by step guide on how to achieve this.
There is nothing wrong with asking for help, but on the other hand, forums are supported by people like you and me, who are already working as a dba/developer/sql professional and the time/help we give is free and impacts on our free time. when people ask for a complete solution. that most big companies would get a consultant in to help with. these sort of questions tend to upset people.
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October 15, 2009 at 5:56 am
As much as I might agree with the general thrust and intention of your comments, you have missed some balance in your editorial by pointing out that sometimes, extended help is required because products are so poorly documented, and that is a "plague" on software that has been around for years.
In some ways, this is like buying a car and having some button or knob not clearly outlined in your owners manual. Imagine driving into a dealership to ask what some undocumented button does or is for, and having the dealer tell you that you need to shell out a few hundred dollars more to have some consultant answer the question. Most people would consider that an outrage if not an actual 'bait and switch' scheme.
In the early days of software, companies supported software without fees because if they were poorly documented, that was the company's responsibility. Somehow, in software, somewhere along the way, this got reversed and support went from being a responsibility, to a profit-center.
Personally, I find that just plain wrong. Its like falling off an ocean liner into the sea and having the rescue guy shout down to you "Mr. Jones!!! Write me a check and I will throw you a life jacket!"
October 15, 2009 at 6:07 am
Great editorial, not the usual fence sitting position but a real and valid point.
I agree that the community can be of great assistance getting over bumps in the road, but not planning the entire route. There is still no substitute for in-project expertise.
PS Love the spell check option
October 15, 2009 at 6:08 am
blandry (10/15/2009)
In some ways, this is like buying a car and having some button or knob not clearly outlined in your owners manual. Imagine driving into a dealership to ask what some undocumented button does or is for, and having the dealer tell you that you need to shell out a few hundred dollars more to have some consultant answer the question. Most people would consider that an outrage if not an actual 'bait and switch' scheme.
But some people buy a car and think driving lessons are included.
October 15, 2009 at 6:15 am
I agree documentation can be a real hinderance, but I think it will disappear completely, not improve. My reasoning is that there is more and more complexity in software that it is not possible (or would increase the cost so dramatically) to fully document all options.
As for the falling into the sea analogy, no-one would say that. It's life or death . It's very far from appropriate.
If you're booking a cruise you rightly expect certain standards, as these are enforced by law. Little comfort if you drown but it's there.
However, anyone buying a software or solution will know full well to read the T&Cs and factor issues such as support and training into the total cost. Right or wrong, that's where it is.
A bespoke solution cost can often end up so much higher because the developers have a monopoly.
October 15, 2009 at 6:20 am
You hit it dead on Steve but it's far larger than the DBA/SQL community, the IT Industry is plagued by this attitude and, I have to say, rightfully so as there are more than a few executives and professionals with the "I'm always right and the smartest guy in the room" syndrom.
We all know them. I have a client CIO who simply cannot have a meeting without taking 15 minutes or more to establish that he is smarter than every consultant invited. Yeah, he's ex-IBM too but I've forgiven him for that. Not really a bad guy but very insecure.
October 15, 2009 at 6:23 am
lol! I know that guy!
October 15, 2009 at 6:24 am
I've been on projects where the team was instructed by management to solve a problem themselves without getting tech help from the software manufacturer. Calling and getting help would cost a few hundred. Instead, the team spent months being slowed before they got a lead on how to do it. The results? Tens of thousands of dollars in wasted time.
The Gambler had it right - "You've got to know when to hold - know when to fold. Know when to walk away - know when to run!"
Maybe this is one of the professional skills that management and tech people need to learn together - knowing when to call and knowing when to tough it out.
Whether it's right or wrong, every project should have a budget for tech calls.
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
October 15, 2009 at 6:30 am
wytze.sijtsma (10/15/2009)
blandry (10/15/2009)
In some ways, this is like buying a car and having some button or knob not clearly outlined in your owners manual. Imagine driving into a dealership to ask what some undocumented button does or is for, and having the dealer tell you that you need to shell out a few hundred dollars more to have some consultant answer the question. Most people would consider that an outrage if not an actual 'bait and switch' scheme.But some people buy a car and think driving lessons are included.
I could argue that the skill required to design an appropriate HA solution for a particular system is more along the lines of the skills taught by the advanced driver courses. Not something that everyone should be expected to know.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 15, 2009 at 6:40 am
I think it may contribute to some companies trying to cut budget and make employees to wear different hats. In the past, I worked in a company that had database developers, application developers, DBA, business analyst, implementation analyst etc. Now in my current position I am the DBA, database developer, application developer, business analyst and everything you can think of. Sometimes I am given a task that I have never done before and I have to finish it in a crunch time frame. My manager knows that I never do those things before but he does not care. So posting the question is one way to ask for help.
My company just posted a new team lead position - The candidate must be willing to work on various .?Net projects (web services, messaging, data extracts, bug fixes, data analysis, for example).? The technology set for new code will be Microsoft C# .?NET 3.?5, MSMQ 3.?0/?4.?0, SSRS, SSIS, Windows Server, Windows Forms, some possibility of ASP .?NET.? Databases are Informix, Oracle and MS SQL Server.
Essential technical skills:
· 3+? years professional experience designing and coding Microsoft .?NET C#.?
· 3+? years professional SQL experience with any relational database (Oracle and/?or Informix preferred).?
· Experience building web service (or WCF!) APIs over relational databases
· Experience coding clients to web service (or WCF!) APIs
· Experience coding messaging services for online and batch applications.?
· Ability to do maintenance or small feature extension work in Microsoft Visual Basic 2003 and VB .?NET 2005.?
· Intermediate-level Microsoft .?NET user interface experience (Web Forms or ASP .?NET)
October 15, 2009 at 7:20 am
Sometimes the problem is that management does not want to hear that you don't know how to do something. I have been faced with this several times. On several occasions in my career, I have told management that I do not know what I am doing. In many cases, I have been told to figure it out and get it done. Some went ok while others were a disaster.
October 15, 2009 at 7:30 am
WolfHound (10/15/2009)
I agree documentation can be a real hinderance, but I think it will disappear completely, not improve.
This is a symptom of the bigger problem, which is that SQL Server was designed to have lots of features, not to have features well thought out. I can't tell you how many times myself or others I know struggle with something that should be simple, but Microsoft made it difficult. For example, if a backup fails because it is out of disk space, you don't get "out of disk space" message but some seemingly random code, which if you try Googling it gives you 20 different possibilities. There are many other cases where SQL Server is very unintuitive even for technically minded people. WIth all the resources at Microsoft's disposal, you think they could fix the core database product instead of simply tacking on more features every couple of years.
To blame the DBA's, developers, and users for the failings of the product is rather rude. I'm willing to help people when I can because I know there are parts of SQL Server that are lacking, and I'd hope someone would be willing to help me if I fall into one of those traps that I wasn't familliar with.
October 15, 2009 at 8:31 am
Egads! The statement from Loner about sums it up. I was going to place a comment at the end of a quote, but it's too long. Just look a few statements back to see it.
In some cases, management has absolutely no clue what they're asking for. And I've seen worse - throw in some javascript and a few other languages and when someone applies, tell them you only pay entry-level wages!
Is it any wonder that exasperated people post on blogs looking for all kinds of high-level help?
___________________________________________________
“Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”
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