March 8, 2018 at 7:28 am
I always find myself annoyed when IT professionals wish for magic dust that makes datetime data less complicated. I will point out the obvious fact that it is not until data gets complicated that it is useful and interesting--simple data is worthless. Learn datetime methods like the back of your hand and produce systems that are resilient to bad datetime data. That is the solution, of course. As for DST: this is a first-world issue. You benefit from living and working in a first-world economy, so griping about its features is churlish. In 1930, Vladimir Lenin told the USSR to jump forward an hour for DST--they stayed that way for fifty years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_time. Only commies can't handle DST. For the rest of us, it should be child's play.
March 8, 2018 at 7:30 am
I think we should spring forward a half an hour this year, then we never change the clocks again. Get the best of both worlds. IMHO 🙂
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March 8, 2018 at 7:35 am
Jason- - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:26 AMI agree with Steve about abolishing daylight savings; either leave it sprung forward or let it fall back and stay but either way I'm in favor of not moving the clocks anymore. There's even some real medical reasons to support such a move. Health.com reported that heart attacks and strokes rise during the time changes. If their findings are accurate, the matter isn't trivial or inconsequential, stopping the change could save lives. Though I'd be curious to see corresponding data from Hawaii or Arizona who don't shift and see if the rates stay down.
- http://www.health.com/sleep/daylight-saving-time-health-risksData wise however, storing time in UTC, while having some of its own pros and cons, solves the daylight savings shift. For many reports and applications UTC is already required to support displaying time in the user's local time zone rather than the server's.
OK, do we take the health.com at face value or do we ask if the numbers might be different due to what amounts to a 23-hour day and a 25-hour day? I haven't read the link yet, but being one who rarely takes such ideas seriously without further analysis, this seems a bit strange. If I'm at risk simply for rising an hour earlier or later, I'm probably in critical shape for some other reason that is not being considered.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
March 8, 2018 at 7:37 am
GeorgeCopeland - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:28 AMI always find myself annoyed when IT professionals wish for magic dust that makes datetime data less complicated. I will point out the obvious fact that it is not until data gets complicated that it is useful and interesting--simple data is worthless. Learn datetime methods like the back of your hand and produce systems that are resilient to bad datetime data. That is the solution, of course. As for DST: this is a first-world issue. You benefit from living and working in a first-world economy, so griping about its features is churlish.
Yes, I agree.
In 1930, Vladimir Lenin told the USSR to jump forward an hour... Only commies can't handle DST.
Not judging by some of the comments on this thread. But thanks for reminding me of the word "commie", which I haven't heard for a quarter of a century! And didn't Lenin die in 1924?
John
March 8, 2018 at 7:39 am
skeleton567 - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:35 AMOK, do we take the health.com at face value or do we ask if the numbers might be different due to what amounts to a 23-hour days and a 25-hour day? I haven't read the link yet, but being one who rarely takes such ideas seriously without further analysis, this seems a bit strange. If I'm at risk simply for rising an hour earlier or later, I'm probably in critical shape for some other reason that is not being considered.
Certainly we should look at the numbers, but it's not necessarily the rising early or late, but it's a change that is disruptive. Maybe not to you, but it is, and of the billions of people, yes, this can cause stress and while you might have other factors, this seems like a silly one to force people to adapt to.
There are issues with scheduling across many people, and not everyone has the smart device you have. I don't know that DST has worked well for decades in IT or the rest of the world. It's been mandated, so we deal with it, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues.
March 8, 2018 at 7:40 am
below86 - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:30 AMI think we should spring forward a half an hour this year, then we never change the clocks again. Get the best of both worlds. IMHO 🙂
Well, now there is a very logical solution. Not sure it will work, but an interesting proposal. Probably makes as much sense as fretting about it all. Do we also need to change to 48 times zones and use 30-minute increments?
Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it. Especially if this decision is left in the hands of politicians.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
March 8, 2018 at 7:55 am
You are absolutely right, it is something that should be ended and quickly.
One thing you missed is businesses such as hospitals that are 24/7/365. It seems a lot of, maybe all, medical clinical charting systems were programmed by people who have no idea how to use universal time, and instead require their systems to be SHUT DOWN to compensate. Some are able to remain up, but require clinicians to jump through hoops in order to chart, and at least one requires adjustments to the times charted to allow the two hour period to be seen as only one hour.
There really is no value to DST, and quite a few downsides.
Dave
March 8, 2018 at 7:56 am
Jason- - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:26 AMI agree with Steve about abolishing daylight savings; either leave it sprung forward or let it fall back and stay but either way I'm in favor of not moving the clocks anymore. There's even some real medical reasons to support such a move. Health.com reported that heart attacks and strokes rise during the time changes. If their findings are accurate, the matter isn't trivial or inconsequential, stopping the change could save lives. Though I'd be curious to see corresponding data from Hawaii or Arizona who don't shift and see if the rates stay down.
- http://www.health.com/sleep/daylight-saving-time-health-risksData wise however, storing time in UTC, while having some of its own pros and cons, solves the daylight savings shift. For many reports and applications UTC is already required to support displaying time in the user's local time zone rather than the server's.
I just did a quick check of the devices that I will have to change the time this weekend and the count is twelve, which includes my DSLR. I read a suggestion at Photography/Electronics web site that suggested setting the camera's clock to UTC and leaving it there year round. But I probably will continue to use EST/EDT.
March 8, 2018 at 7:59 am
I agree the change is disruptive, do away with THAT... and stay on DST year round !
(I always get up in the dark - 4AM, and appreciate longer afternoons.)
March 8, 2018 at 7:59 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:39 AMskeleton567 - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:35 AMOK, do we take the health.com at face value or do we ask if the numbers might be different due to what amounts to a 23-hour days and a 25-hour day? I haven't read the link yet, but being one who rarely takes such ideas seriously without further analysis, this seems a bit strange. If I'm at risk simply for rising an hour earlier or later, I'm probably in critical shape for some other reason that is not being considered.Certainly we should look at the numbers, but it's not necessarily the rising early or late, but it's a change that is disruptive. Maybe not to you, but it is, and of the billions of people, yes, this can cause stress and while you might have other factors, this seems like a silly one to force people to adapt to.
There are issues with scheduling across many people, and not everyone has the smart device you have. I don't know that DST has worked well for decades in IT or the rest of the world. It's been mandated, so we deal with it, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues.
Well, as we used to say years ago, 'Some of us are able to sublimate. Others just can't adjust'. Thanks for the reminder of those words of wisdom.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
March 8, 2018 at 8:14 am
skeleton567 - Thursday, March 8, 2018 7:35 AMOK, do we take the health.com at face value or do we ask if the numbers might be different due to what amounts to a 23-hour day and a 25-hour day? I haven't read the link yet, but being one who rarely takes such ideas seriously without further analysis, this seems a bit strange. If I'm at risk simply for rising an hour earlier or later, I'm probably in critical shape for some other reason that is not being considered.
I agree with you, that's why I added the caveat "If their findings are accurate." and why I'm curious if other areas that don't do time shifts have significantly different rates of change. The article isn't a journal paper so their data sources and analysis methods aren't documented in it (not that I'd understand it anyway), so take it for what it's worth, an article that presents a need to do further research. For me, I don't have the expertise required to endorse or refute their findings. It raised my eyebrow pointing out that an issue I normally think of as trivial may not be as trivial as I thought.
Again I'm not an expert in medicine so this is just tidbit; if the issue is real, and the issue is caused by a 23 or 25 hour day rather than the time of day we wake, wouldn't the time change still be a culprit. it's the time change that creates the longer/shorter day so it would still make the time change a factor. For the medical researchers and practitioners that need the deeper insight, knowing if the body behaves differently because of the time we wake up vs the number of hours we are awake matters and are two very different things (not to mention there's other variables that need to be considered). For some, just knowing that the time adjustment has an impact might be all we need to know if it drives our wake/sleep properly in the end.
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March 8, 2018 at 8:16 am
Ralph Hightower - Thursday, March 8, 2018 6:46 AMThe hours that I work are dictated by my employer. Unlike Steve Jones, I don't have the privilege of working when I want to. During the winter, I leave home in the dark to commute to work and leave work in the dark for my commute home. I appreciate the extra hour of daylight that is available in the spring and summer. Once I retire in 2021, then whether it is EST or EDT for me won't make a difference for me. It takes a couple of days for our dogs to adjust to the time change; Zeus expects to be fed at 7 PM.A damned dumb senator in my state has proposed legislation for South Carolina to stay in one time zone year round and a few others support him.Should SC ignore daylight saving time? Lawmakers want to look into it. Unless neighbouring states adopt the same time period, it will make travel to adjoining states confusing.
I believe there are some states that recognize DST in small portions, but not the entire state. Years ago working in Illinois I maintained relationships with companies in Indiana, and we had to adjust when the time changed because they were far enough away that they did not use DST and were in a different time zone. Double whammy! One of the employees commuted from Michigan, and had to deal with a 2-hour drive one way, and a 0-hour drive the other, while actually needing 60 minutes for the drive.
Dave
March 8, 2018 at 8:20 am
I feel I am unable to answer this as being a techie I have a conflict of interests. I am sure DST is keeping a number of IT professionals busy to cut code/queries to handle date time changes correctly. This problem even challenges the experts at Apple with past iOS upgrade failures with Alarms not working correctly after clock changes.
On a personal level, we should scrap it! I like the idea of lighter evenings outside of work time.
March 8, 2018 at 8:25 am
Florida legislature just passed a bill keeping FL on Daylight Savings Time. It still has to pass the governor and then DC has to change laws that don't allow one to stay on it all year.
What this does to timing in FL will be a mess. Since TV network feeds are based on whatever current time mode is in effect, when they switch, we will be an hour earlier. This really throws a monkey wrench to TV programming, as it will change times when the rest of the east coast changes to DST.
It creates more havoc for business with scheduling a meeting, as Atlanta would be at one time, Jacksonville at another, and it would depend on the time change date for Atlanta if they are different! Talk about the mess that travel will be!
Staying on it in the winter means we are dealing with it being darker longer in the mornings, which is a safety issue with kids catching the bus as early as 5:30 or 6:00 currently, with the sun not coming up until after 7. In the winter that will go to 8, affecting more and younger kids! (High school is earliest in our area, followed by elementary, then middle school, so the time shift will go into the elementary bus schedules making it dark for most of them.) (And don't say that schools can change their times, that would have major impact on working parents!)
As an astronomer who does outreach to schools, having the sun set an hour later in the winter makes our ability to do night observing events for kids, especially elementary, not possible as it gets dark too late. We already can't easily do events when it is in DST for most of the year!
They are pushing it as a tourist attraction benefit. Tourists should just get up earlier! (Oh wait, that would affect traffic!)
If this passes I expect that it will be repealed in short order once people realize what a mess a few legislators got us into!
March 8, 2018 at 8:27 am
It seems that only the industrial world uses DST where the rest of the world doesn't. I say get rid of it.
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