A Special Announcement from Andy, Brian, and Steve
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I think Redgate can do anything what she want. SSC will never be a free community.
All content that ist postet and writen here is now part of the redgate marketing and the devision. Thats not the fault of redgate. They must do this. Because they are now in charge for all informations here.
And if some article is critical to an other product who is not from redgate, the producer of these tool can sue to damage to redgate.
An construct like this one cant be work.
In the near future we will see, the removing of links to whitepapers, documents and tools. Not all of them would be removed for redgate itself. Most of them would be removed from the Content-masters in other firms, like quest, neverfail and so on.
Good bye SSC. It was a nice time with you. You brings nice and good informations. The qualtity was superb. But i dont use a redgate tool at this time and so i dont need an redgate support and help site.
greetings from germany
Frodoger
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A few people have asked us what we intend to do with SQL Server Central. The short answer is that we want to take a wonderful community and make it even stronger. By owning SQL Server Central we hope to benefit our underlying business, which is selling SQL Server tools.
The longer answer is below:
To make SSC the strongest SQL Server community we can we’ve identified the following short term objectives:
[] Improve the supporting hardware for a better user experience
[] Improve the software that holds the site together
[] Increase the editorial resources
[] Focus more on the needs of the community
[] Keep all editorial freedom
[] Reduce advertising, remove all annoying and interruptive advertising as soon as possible (we’re having to wait until 1st Jan 2007 in order to honor advertiser contracts)
We’re going to be talking to as many people as possible about what else we should be doing to make SQL Server Central even better. If you’ve got any ideas we’d love to hear them.
We intend to benefit from owning the site by having exclusive access to the (much reduced and less annoying) advertising inventory, and by being closer to the community. For the site to be worth what we paid for it, it will have to remain somewhere that SQL professionals want to go. Of course our hope is that we can make it even better. We know the value of editorial independence -- in about 18 months we’ve built a website (www.simple-talk.com) that has over 120,000 members. We did that by creating content that was unbiased and that people have flocked to read. Reading Simple Talk you’ll notice that Red Gate content (less than 10% of all content on the site) is clearly marked and that the vast majority of the content consists of technical articles and opinion relevant to everyone. Simple Talk authors will tell you Red Gate doesn’t seek to have any influence over their opinions. The editorial challenges for SQL Server Central are completely different since it is such a different site but we realize the central truth: if you write shill articles, people won’t visit.
Red Gate isn’t going to accept advertising, something that will improve the experience for most visitors. Indeed over 20% of visitors to SQL Server Central have ad blocking software which they use so they don’t have to avert their eyes. We will not be censoring editorial content or forum posts.
Over the years, SSC has probably done more than most other sites to increase the general awareness of the value of third-party tools to developing SQL Server applications, and this was a big part of its attraction to Red Gate. We’d love to be able to promote discussion of all tools on SSC, at a technical level, and in such a way that the whole breed develops in quality and purchasers can make informed choices.
Indeed we are planning on increasing the editorial independence from where it is now. I would argue that the current reviews on SQL Server Central serve little purpose to the community, since they are all 5 or 4 stars, even when the products are awful. In future the reviews will be written without fear or favor, using publicly available material so that you can verify the findings. We’re considering having a vendor section of the site where products can be discussed by the community; if we can get around the legal problems we’ll probably do that. We are one of the very few software companies in the market who don’t have restrictive covenants in our EULAs that prevent people writing fair reviews comparing us to other products.
If you’ve got any questions please post them and I’ll do my best to answer them. As a courtesy to the community please identify if you have ever received any money from, or work for, one of our competitors.
Best,
Tony Davis, Simple-Talk.com Editor.
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"As a courtesy to the community please identify if you have ever received any money from, or work for, one of our competitors."
this would be also helpful if you are gainfully employed, affiliated, etc with Red-Gate like "Phil Factor" actively shilling for this sale on this site and simple-talk. of course he didn't extend the community this courtesy Tony asks. This not so subtle inference means that Tony thinks anybody who is against this is paid by a "competitor". Not that we needed another example of hubris but this is it.
"Red Gate isn’t going to accept advertising". NOT TRUE. As Tony has already admitted - they plan to continue to run newsletter ads ... but of course, ONLY Red-Gate newsletter ads. So they will accept ads - just their own! another example of the pretzelization of the truth by red-gate. The stated purpose of this sale as reported on "Database Underground" wasn't to "improve the site" but to leverage the subscriber list.
http://weblog.infoworld.com/dbunderground/archives/2006/11/is_there_a_futu.html
and Tony - if you're so concerned about annoying ads - why not remove your ads from sql-server-performance and sqlteam and do the community a favor? of course, one would have to be totally naive to believe red-gate - who has run more ads in the last 5 years than all current competitors on this site combined is really against "annoying banner ads". this is just a rouse. nobody is fooled.
"(we’re having to wait until 1st Jan 2007 in order to honor advertiser contracts)" In fact Red-Gate has already breeched existing contracts by immediately applying "new standards" regarding existing ads - that they then refuse to disclose what these new standards are! Where is the transparency? What are these "standards"? Who will enforce them? Where is the accountability? Nobody knows - since all we get from red-gate is platitudes that are becoming increasingly unbelievable and removed from reality - instead of Baghdad Bob - we've got Simple-Talk Tony.
Tony, If simple-talk is so successful, why did you need to buy sqlservercentral? Most people I talk to say simple-talk is pretty pathetic - the content is boring and there is no community. Having failed to produce a "real" community despite tens of thousands of dollars in investment - Red-Gate simply decided to hijack an existing one. This is contrary to the spirit of independent media and by most people's standards - unethical - and also Red-Gate has been TOTALLY disingenuous in their efforts to disguise their true intentions.
News source about this disaster
I have set up a separate blog just to get more information out on this http://www.apexsql.com/lockwood/index.htm (there is a ton of stuff out there already) I've already received one anonymous email indicating my days of unedited posted are nearing an end at sqlservercentral - so if I drop off suddenly (usually following some bogus pretext) you'll know why!
Rising tide of anger
I'm getting more an more emails and calls of support on this (from some telling me they are afraid to speak out themselves) - this fight has just begun. America got the O.J. Book deal cancelled - we still have time to reverse this anti-completive hijacking as well!
Alternative to this site should emerge soon ...
Also I've seen some proposals people have sent me for new websites that will be built with a solid technical and ethical foundation from the beginning - with open and transparent by laws covering real independence, and standards of conduct with owners truly accountable to the community they are supposed to serve. (I will post more on this soon) my guess is that if *anything* along these lines can be created in the near future you will hear a giant sucking sound of 300,000 subscribers simultaneously hitting "unsubscribe" from this site.
Here is one post from "Database underground"
http://weblog.infoworld.com/dbunderground/archives/2006/11/is_there_a_futu.html
and for a complete source of information on this deal link this site http://www.apexsql.com/lockwood/index.htm RSS should work.
Brian Lockwood
President
ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials -
I'm one of the two founders of Red Gate. I'd like to thank the people (the vast majority, by my counting) who have posted to this thread indicating that they are prepared to remain open minded and judge for themselves how SQL Server Central evolves.
In particular, I'd like to thank Ashton Hobbs (in a post a page or two back) and Ivan Erceg (at http://devsql.blogspot.com/), both of whom work for ApexSQL (and, incidentally, whose work as individuals I respect and admire) for their scrupulously honest and reasonable comments, and for extending us the courtesy of giving us a chance to prove ourselves through our actions.
I assume their posts will remain uncensored.
- Neil
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Neil,
I know you appreciate Ivan's work as you offered him a job last year!
But I don't believe either of the aforementioned have extended you anything - both have expressed a large dose of skepticism in this boondoggle.here are Ivan's posts - u might want to read them again
http://devsql.blogspot.com/2006/11/red-gate-buys-sql-server-central.html
http://devsql.blogspot.com/2006/11/freedom.html
But unfortunately I can't return the compliment regards "scrupulously honest" posting to your employees. Who have in short period of time have posted a series of contradictory, misleading, intellectually dishonest and just plain disingenuous posts. It forms a very disturbing pattern which I have begun to document fully here http://www.apexsql.com/lockwood/index.htm
We have watched Red-Gate's actions over the years - this is just the most recent in a long series of anti-completive tactics aimed towards the specific goal of controlling and restricting the free flow of information in this industry. Your actions speak much louder than your words, and with the takeover of this site you have made a strong statement against independent media that "talking points" from the Red-Gate media machine can't obscure. I think people are beginning to understand this and that is what people are trying to communicate to you. Tell your crew to start listening to people instead of lecturing to them like in this post http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/philfactor/default.aspx and you might have better luck building your own community, vs taking over someone elses.
It's glad to hear you "assume" posts here will remain censored - since you now own the website. but forgive me if I'm not instilled with a huge level of confidence that posts here will remain uncensored based on this weak affirmation of lack of censorship here.
Since you have weighed in I have some questions about your actions, not words
1) Why did you apply secret "new standards" to the website immediately upon securing control of it. Such new standards seemed to eliminate banners that referred to completive upgrades against your products (which after I have complained seem to have mysteriously re-appeared). I have to go on my analysis since you refuse to disclose to me new standards, notify me of these changes you are making or otherwise fullfill a contract signed in good faith.
2) Why are you paying sql-server-performance to prevent anyone from competing with your SQL Compare tools? Why did you attempt to increase these anti-completive restrictions this year on SQL-Server-Performance and also attempt over the years to do this on the other sites as well? If your intentions are truly not anti-competitive - will you immediately and publicly renounce this anti-competitive tactic, immediately cancel these restrictions and allow competitors a chance to offer an alternative to your Diff tools? In doing so would you apologize to the community for employing these negative tactic and suppressing information for more than 2 years. Perhaps if you desisted from employing nefarious tactics and renounced them people might not be as skeptical as to your motives.
3) Why haven't you posted a disclaimer informing community members that this site is a "service of Red-Gate"? This would seem to be a simple and obvious step any ethical owner of a site would immediately take. The vast majority of users on this site are still unaware of this sale and assume the site is still independent (unless they got one newsletter last week they wouldn't know). In fact most seem to be hearing it from me now vs your own company.
We don't care about your words, Neil. What we look for is actions. and the actions your company has employed speak volumes.
PS - this just popped up in my RSS reader. While I'm blogging about important and relevant events in the industry your posting things like this http://www.simple-talk.com/community/blogs/neil_davidson/archive/2006/11/24/8121.aspx I'm sure we're all inspired by the editorial powerhouse that is Red-Gate to produce such fine content - brilliant!
Brian Lockwood
President
ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials -
I also find it ironic that Neil had to create an account and that this was his first post - ever - on sqlservercentral! I've been posting for years back to the days when I was the sole coder (and employee) at ApexSQL and came here to get coding tips etc.
Red-Gate's sole focus on this website has been to mine it's assets (members) vs actually participating in the community - the big "Newbie!" under Neils Nic proves it. Let's hope Neil can double his total contribution to the community with another post.
Brian Lockwood
President
ApexSQL - SQL Developer Essentials -
Knowing Red Gate, I believe they will do their best to keep this a professional and unbiased board. However, human nature being what it is, their challenge over time will be to resist the temptation to turn it into a stealth marketing arm for Red Gate. Presumeably Red Gate banners and advertising will be at no charge to them, and they will have final say over editorial, even where it concerns other companies and products. However, starting out with a company with the highest of standards is a good start.
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I posted this in another thread (Editor in Chief by Steve Jones), but I think it fits here also.
Steve,
Just keep up the fine work you've been doing so far. It's up to RedGate to prove that this site will remain independent. One thing I have noticed is that now that RedGate owns this site, there isn't anything on the site saying so (besides a couple of threads). The logo should be changed to reflect RedGate's ownership. Why? Because right now it makes them look more sneaky and trying to hide their ownership. People coming to this site have a right to know that it is owned by RedGate and not by the original SQLServerCentral group.
-SQLBill
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The one thing I hope RedGate does with this site is fix the time-out issue. I am tired of finding myself with the "Access denied" page. And it's not just because I was typing a long response, no, today it happened a couple of times while I was switching from one thread to another.
-SQLBill
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I posted this back in November:
quote: One thing I have noticed is that now that RedGate owns this site, there isn't anything on the site saying so (besides a couple of threads). The logo should be changed to reflect RedGate's ownership. Why? Because right now it makes them look more sneaky and trying to hide their ownership. People coming to this site have a right to know that it is owned by RedGate and not by the original SQLServerCentral group.
end quote
and as of today (Jan 17th 2007), there is still nothing that shows Red-Gate owns this site. With all the previous negative comments about Red-Gate and their ownership of other sites, I have to believe they are trying to hide their ownership of this site.
Steve, please step up to the plate and require they show their ownership of this site or let us know why it's being hidden.
Thanks,
-SQLBill
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Hmmm, I guess I'm not sure what you would like to see. This site exists as a separate entity, managed and run by me to date.
We added a Red Gate logo to the upper right corner of every page. The copyright at the bottom of every page and newsletter is copyrighted to Red Gate. The About page (http://www.sqlservercentral.com/other/AboutUs.asp) has been changed to reflect that this site is part of the Red Gate Network, which includes Simple Talk as another publishing site.
I'm not sure what other changes we should make to disclose ownership.
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"Site owned by Red Gate Software" - it's that easy, surely?
"Site supported" does bring about an image of cheerleaders and raucous fans!
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It seems fine, and largely irrelevent to me. I don't see any variation in the posts in the forum and to be honest does it really matter who owns the site from the point of view of using the site?
My only concern was if redgate were planning to make the site subscription only - I'm not sure how the subscription only sites fare and I never figure to use them - I don't get spam as a result of using SQL Central, which was why I first started using the site.
[font="Comic Sans MS"]The GrumpyOldDBA[/font]
www.grumpyolddba.co.uk
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/grumpyolddba/ -
Yes - that's the part that intrigues me as well - is everyone arguing the "principle of the thing" - the semantics - what ?!
For the many members who missed this announcement their (SQL/SSC) lives go on as before and it's not different for those of us who've been in the know from the beginning...a separate forum has been added just for third party tools and that's been a direct result of all the Apex rants...and to assure the audience that the site is continuing with its unbiased approach...this change too is apparent only to those who've been following all the ensuing threads..
So once again...why is this so important ?!?!
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
My issue is that the only thing I see on the page is the Supported by Red-Gate software. I don't scroll all the way down to see the copywrite information, etc. This isn't truly an independent site - it is owned by a company that allows it to ACT independently. Might be semantics-but it's still two different things. The header of each page makes it appear that this is still an independent site and is only SUPPORTED by RedGate through their software.
-SQLBill
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