October 20, 2016 at 1:02 pm
ZZartin (10/20/2016)
Eric M Russell (10/18/2016)
One thing that can be said for single tier development tools like MS Access and FoxPro, they allow a developer to quickly stove pipe a complete functional solution without being handicapped by all the usual IT codswallop of stakeholder meetings, upfront design, funding, QA and database administration. You just meet with the end user at their desk, jot down a few notes, and then get to work. :satisfied:Well until you end up with a critical production system being run off some random person's desktop :pinch:
Not just some random person's desktop.. but that of a pure genius who has figured out how to game the system and create his own job security!! Bruu ha haaaa! :crazy:
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 20, 2016 at 1:56 pm
I object most strenuously to being described as "random"!
October 20, 2016 at 9:16 pm
samuel.shollenberger (10/20/2016)
I object most strenuously to being described as "random"!
I'd object if that critical application was running on your desktop and your hard drive failed. Or if there was a fire, electrical short, robbery, etc.
Mission critical data and source code should be stored on a server that's supported by the network team and backed up regularly.
October 21, 2016 at 1:17 am
Ed Wagner (10/20/2016)
samuel.shollenberger (10/20/2016)
I object most strenuously to being described as "random"!I'd object if that critical application was running on your desktop and your hard drive failed. Or if there was a fire, electrical short, robbery, etc.
Mission critical data and source code should be stored on a server that's supported by the network team and backed up regularly.
Every essential item should be covered by the Disaster Recovery plan. On one's laptop likely excludes that.
Arguably, with the exception of minor experimental work, we should only be working on essential items.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 21, 2016 at 10:50 am
Jeff Moden (10/17/2016)
Eric M Russell (10/17/2016)
I occasionally encounter SQL that was originally coded back in the early '90s, even though it has been migrated to newer hardware and RDMS platforms several times since. The way I see it, back office programming like COBOL and SQL are like the plumbing behind the wall; it must be professionally done, and it should be built to last.In contrast, front end stuff like SilverLight, JavaScript, and Tableau are like the paint on wall; you can hand the job over to an intern, and regardless of how functional the end result may be, it will just end up getting tossed for something new in a few years for aesthetic reasons.
That's a great analogy, Eric.
But not a particularly accurate one. I agree that SilverLight is for the front end. I don't know enough about the various Tableau products to be sure, but perhaps saying it's front end stuff suggests that SQL Server Analysis Services and SQL Server Reporting services are also "front end stuff" you can hand to an intern, which some people might reasonably have issues with (and my experience has taught me never to let anything to do with Reporting Services get anywhare near anyone without plenty of programming experience and a good track record either a good track record in learning new stuff quickly or lots of successfull experience with Reporting Services, so not something for an intern. But I can't see JavaScript as just front end. Sometimes the heavy lifting is done in JavaScript instead of C++, because it's a much cleaner language and has decent run-time typing, so that quite often things which are hard and complicated in C++ are much less hard and complicated in JavaScript. When (as is quite common) you can cut both development and maintenance costs by using the cleaner language it is sometimes less expensive in the long run to take that reduction in people costs and buy more compute power to compensate if JavaScript needs more compute power than C++.
Tom
October 21, 2016 at 11:41 am
David.Poole (10/17/2016)
I was aghast to find an old Clipper app still being maintained, although it didn't really need much maintaining. For next to no investment it was cheerfully generating £2million per year!
A Clipper app - that was probably written before 1992 and very probably before 1995, although some apps were written later than that. Do you know when it actually dated from?
The most ancient apps I ever came across were only 12 or 13 years old when I met them. I was asked to finish off a Deuce Alphacode interpreter for Myriad that someone else had written most of and then departed, because there were some alphacode (mid 50s vintage) apps that were supposedly still needed. No great hurry, as the Lab's aged Deuce was still working. I finished the interpreter, using bursts of output on the paper tape puch for the audible alarm signal, as the lab's Myriad had no audio output device. Did some testing with test apps, all seemed ok. Next I looked at the apps for which the thing was required,and discovered that these apps all triggered (audio) alarms at various points during execution to get the operator to do take notice and do something (can't remember what) so that rattling the tape punch wasn't acceptable because the apps produced paper tape output with a very strictly defined format so that rattles in the middle of it would effectively render the output useless. The tape reader wasn't the high speed one so not usable for audio output (being of the generation I am, I knew that a high speed optical tape reader could be used to play tunes, and eventually I learnt to do it but that was in a different company which actually had some of them.) So I tried to find out who was using the apps and whether these audio alarms were esential or could I use lights instead. Everyone I asked didn't use them, but thought someone else was maybe using them. After a brief discussion with my boss, the interpreter was "finished off" by canning it (or maybe just put away in case a need turned up - but I doubt that).
Tom
October 21, 2016 at 11:49 am
Accidental duplicate deleted
Tom
October 21, 2016 at 11:50 am
TomThomson (10/21/2016)
David.Poole (10/17/2016)
I was aghast to find an old Clipper app still being maintained, although it didn't really need much maintaining. For next to no investment it was cheerfully generating £2million per year!A Clipper app - that was probably written before 1992 and very probably before 1995, although some apps were written later than that. Do you know when it actually dated from?
The most ancient apps I ever came across were only 12 or 13 years old when I met them. I was asked to finish off a Deuce Alphacode interpreter for Myriad that someone else had written most of and then departed, because there were some alphacode (mid 50s vintage) apps that were supposedly still needed. No great hurry, as the Lab's aged Deuce was still working. I finished the interpreter, using bursts of output on the paper tape puch for the audible alarm signal, as the lab's Myriad had no audio output device. Did some testing with test apps, all seemed ok. Next I looked at the apps for which the thing was required,and discovered that these apps all triggered (audio) alarms at various points during execution to get the operator to do take notice and do something (can't remember what) so that rattling the tape punch wasn't acceptable because the apps produced paper tape output with a very strictly defined format so that rattles in the middle of it would effectively render the output useless. The tape reader wasn't the high speed one so not usable for audio output (being of the generation I am, I knew that a high speed optical tape reader could be used to play tunes, and eventually I learnt to do it but that was in a different company which actually had some of them.) So I tried to find out who was using the apps and whether these audio alarms were esential or could I use lights instead. Everyone I asked didn't use them, but thought someone else was maybe using them. After a brief discussion with my boss, the interpreter was "finished off" by canning it (or maybe just put away in case a need turned up - but I doubt that).
There's a lot of people at my employer who use KEdit, which I think qualifies as ancient. It was written in 1983 and last updated in 1998 (our version, anyway). I know how people are about text editors, though, because I'm the same about UltraEdit. I even knew a guy who learned on Unix and had to get VI for Windows! :w00t:
October 21, 2016 at 12:15 pm
Ed Wagner (10/21/2016)
TomThomson (10/21/2016)
David.Poole (10/17/2016)
I was aghast to find an old Clipper app still being maintained, although it didn't really need much maintaining. For next to no investment it was cheerfully generating £2million per year!A Clipper app - that was probably written before 1992 and very probably before 1995, although some apps were written later than that. Do you know when it actually dated from?
The most ancient apps I ever came across were only 12 or 13 years old when I met them. I was asked to finish off a Deuce Alphacode interpreter for Myriad that someone else had written most of and then departed, because there were some alphacode (mid 50s vintage) apps that were supposedly still needed. No great hurry, as the Lab's aged Deuce was still working. I finished the interpreter, using bursts of output on the paper tape puch for the audible alarm signal, as the lab's Myriad had no audio output device. Did some testing with test apps, all seemed ok. Next I looked at the apps for which the thing was required,and discovered that these apps all triggered (audio) alarms at various points during execution to get the operator to do take notice and do something (can't remember what) so that rattling the tape punch wasn't acceptable because the apps produced paper tape output with a very strictly defined format so that rattles in the middle of it would effectively render the output useless. The tape reader wasn't the high speed one so not usable for audio output (being of the generation I am, I knew that a high speed optical tape reader could be used to play tunes, and eventually I learnt to do it but that was in a different company which actually had some of them.) So I tried to find out who was using the apps and whether these audio alarms were esential or could I use lights instead. Everyone I asked didn't use them, but thought someone else was maybe using them. After a brief discussion with my boss, the interpreter was "finished off" by canning it (or maybe just put away in case a need turned up - but I doubt that).
There's a lot of people at my employer who use KEdit, which I think qualifies as ancient. It was written in 1983 and last updated in 1998 (our version, anyway). I know how people are about text editors, though, because I'm the same about UltraEdit. I even knew a guy who learned on Unix and had to get VI for Windows! :w00t:
I love UltraEdit as well.
October 21, 2016 at 1:25 pm
Lynn Pettis (10/21/2016)
Ed Wagner (10/21/2016)
TomThomson (10/21/2016)
David.Poole (10/17/2016)
I was aghast to find an old Clipper app still being maintained, although it didn't really need much maintaining. For next to no investment it was cheerfully generating £2million per year!A Clipper app - that was probably written before 1992 and very probably before 1995, although some apps were written later than that. Do you know when it actually dated from?
The most ancient apps I ever came across were only 12 or 13 years old when I met them. I was asked to finish off a Deuce Alphacode interpreter for Myriad that someone else had written most of and then departed, because there were some alphacode (mid 50s vintage) apps that were supposedly still needed. No great hurry, as the Lab's aged Deuce was still working. I finished the interpreter, using bursts of output on the paper tape puch for the audible alarm signal, as the lab's Myriad had no audio output device. Did some testing with test apps, all seemed ok. Next I looked at the apps for which the thing was required,and discovered that these apps all triggered (audio) alarms at various points during execution to get the operator to do take notice and do something (can't remember what) so that rattling the tape punch wasn't acceptable because the apps produced paper tape output with a very strictly defined format so that rattles in the middle of it would effectively render the output useless. The tape reader wasn't the high speed one so not usable for audio output (being of the generation I am, I knew that a high speed optical tape reader could be used to play tunes, and eventually I learnt to do it but that was in a different company which actually had some of them.) So I tried to find out who was using the apps and whether these audio alarms were esential or could I use lights instead. Everyone I asked didn't use them, but thought someone else was maybe using them. After a brief discussion with my boss, the interpreter was "finished off" by canning it (or maybe just put away in case a need turned up - but I doubt that).
There's a lot of people at my employer who use KEdit, which I think qualifies as ancient. It was written in 1983 and last updated in 1998 (our version, anyway). I know how people are about text editors, though, because I'm the same about UltraEdit. I even knew a guy who learned on Unix and had to get VI for Windows! :w00t:
I love UltraEdit as well.
Yeah, it's a keeper. I brought it with me because I bought it myself while working for my last employer. A number of people here have seen it and gotten the company to buy it for them. It know it's feature-creeped beyond belief, but it's just a really great text editor.
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