October 17, 2016 at 4:05 pm
skeleton567
Wow, David. You absolutely blew me away with that rant. Just wait until your company comes and says they need something and need it quickly, and see what they do when your reply is 'You can't get there from here'.
Companies ALWAYS say they need something quickly. My contention is that they rarely get it. They get a lot of people scurrying around looking busy and wondering how the hell they are going to deliver things quickly when they are hampered by the last thing they delivered quickly.
Taking data in particular my experience is that the two biggest problems are the data model and the quality of data. To a certain extent tech can alleviate a poor model but it is a sticking plaster solution at best and quickly gets very expensive.
The whole point of Agile methodologies is that you can deliver at a sustained pace indefinitely. If you try and go beyond a sustainable pace you will eventually be forced to slow down. If you cut corners you will eventually be forced to slow down.
I've seen IT deliverables that were masterpieces of invention and battling against the odds but if someone had taken a step back and thought about it they would realise that they were trying to solve a symptom rather than the root cause and the root cause was by far the simplest puzzle to solve. The solution delivered was how to capture the Maginot line, the solution required was how to neutraliase the Maginot line.
I fully agree that you should have planned succession for tech but I feel strongly that the "competitive advantage" line has too much sales & marketing hype. The most honest thing you can say is that it is disruptive tech. It's all about how you use it (people and process) rather than what you use.
October 17, 2016 at 7:32 pm
skeleton567 (10/17/2016)
David.Poole (10/17/2016)
I was aghast to find an old Clipper app still being maintained, although it didn't really need much maintaining. For next to no investment it was cheerfully generating £2million per year!I can't help thinking that the IT industry is one gigantic con trick aided and abetted by it's customers in much the same way that the diet food industry is aided and abetted by the obese.
No one in business will thank you for saying "look, if you just altered your business processes you could do more with less". Believe me there is a business equivalent of tech debt.
The reality is that hardware has exceeded the power required by most business applications. The evidence for this is virtualization.
What exactly are the new tools and frameworks adding beyond lines on our CV?
Why agonise over the"best" technology choice? By the time you have reached the level of proficiency where any difference becomes relevant it'll be obsolete anyway!
IT religious wars abound and it seems as if the open-source ethos is to create yet another divergent fork then spin it off as a separate product rather than get the fix committed to the trunk.
Wow, David. You absolutely blew me away with that rant. Just wait until your company comes and says they need something and need it quickly, and see what they do when your reply is 'You can't get there from here'. About the only thing I can agree with is your comment that 'hardware has exceeded the power required by most business applications'. It's true that one does not always need all the available power, just the needed power. And it is your responsibility to determine what is needed and get it for them.
If you have allowed things to get so far out of date that you can't react, you have failed.
Interesting takes on both parts.
My stance is that I don't believe in "new improved things" that aren't actually better. Nope, not a Luddite, either. Improvements to the wheel are welcome but it still needs to be round. 😀 When I see folks spend more than a quarter million dollars on software that does no better a job than SSIS and takes longer to implement something on it, I'm thinking that someone needs to take another look and cut their losses.
As someone once said, "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 17, 2016 at 8:23 pm
Jeff Moden (10/17/2016)
skeleton567 (10/17/2016)
David.Poole (10/17/2016)
I was aghast to find an old Clipper app still being maintained, although it didn't really need much maintaining. For next to no investment it was cheerfully generating £2million per year!IT religious wars abound and it seems as if the open-source ethos is to create yet another divergent fork then spin it off as a separate product rather than get the fix committed to the trunk.
Interesting takes on both parts.
My stance is that I don't believe in "new improved things" that aren't actually better. Nope, not a Luddite, either. Improvements to the wheel are welcome but it still needs to be round. 😀 When I see folks spend more than a quarter million dollars on software that does no better a job than SSIS and takes longer to implement something on it, I'm thinking that someone needs to take another look and cut their losses.
As someone once said, "Change is inevitable... change for the better is not".
I cut some of the middle of this quote because it can be seen above. My comment is this: I'm still running three of my PERSONAL machines on Win XP because it works for my purposes, but it is no longer supported. I would NOT be running three machines for an employer without explicit instructions to do so, because it would be irresponsible to do so. True
sometimes 'new and improved' is not necessarily better but it may be prudent. Unless, of course, your Dad owns the company. And in my case, even that would have been a huge mistake. Sometimes those new things might just be the grease that keeps the bearings from wearing out.
Incidentally, this winter I'll be rebuilding one of those XP machines with Win 8.1, not the latest thing available but because it makes sense for my situation. I most likely will migrate another one to new hardware AND OS because, as I mentioned in an earlier comment, I've maxed out the hardware capability and need to take preventive action before it dies.
The wheel may continue to be round, but the bearings may wear out someday.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
October 18, 2016 at 12:05 am
I'm not a Luddite. I stepped over the wall into management took a good look around and realised that the grass always looks greener on the other side.
A great deal of what IT are tasked with achieving could be achieved much simpler and for greater benefit if the business process was more thoroughly thought out.
I went on a process improvement course with business colleagues and everyone on the course was tasked (and authorised from on high) to take the steps to improve a process. Part of this is drilling down to root causes and asking "why do we do it this way"? Some of our discoveries were shocking.Quite a few processes existed because someone devised a back of an envelope procedure 20 years before to address an immediate problem, handed it to an underling to execute and it got enshrined. Over the years whole IT projects had been run to facilitate something that was only ever really needed for a one-off but now had an entire department complete with management structure to support it!
One of the wisest things that someone said to me is that if your DBs are OK but a bit scruffy then your code will be OK but a bit scruffy, your network will be OK but a bit scruffy as will the rest of your infrastructure. From what I can see this goes out beyond IT and probably down from the top. Your business processes will be OK but a bit scruffy. If on the other hand your code is a big ball of mud.......
October 18, 2016 at 7:48 am
I manage an application (really something more of an eco-system at this point) that was begun in VB6 and SQL Server 7 in 1999. It has survived many new iterations and runs now on a Windows 2012 server with a SQL Server 2008 database.
By using the [highlight="#ffff11"].NET Framework Interop Toolkit[/highlight], I am able to use components that I build in VB.NET and C#.NET in my VB6 application. By using [highlight="#ffff11"]assembly manifests[/highlight], I am able to use third party DLLs and OCXs that were introduced while the application ran on a Windows 2003 Server.
I highly encourage anyone who is reading this thread to look into these technologies. They are very, very useful.
October 18, 2016 at 8:37 am
David.Poole (10/18/2016)
A great deal of what IT are tasked with achieving could be achieved much simpler and for greater benefit if the business process was more thoroughly thought out.
I went on a process improvement course with business colleagues and everyone on the course was tasked (and authorised from on high) to take the steps to improve a process. Part of this is drilling down to root causes and asking "why do we do it this way"? Some of our discoveries were shocking.Quite a few processes existed because someone devised a back of an envelope procedure 20 years before to address an immediate problem, handed it to an underling to execute and it got enshrined. Over the years whole IT projects had been run to facilitate something that was only ever really needed for a one-off but now had an entire department complete with management structure to support it!
Heh... never doubt the power of entrenched management particularly in private companies to defend to the death 30 year old business practices that are now completely unrealistic. The last company I worked for spent months redesigning their website(much of which was spent tweaking the shade of blue they used) but completely refused to let us build any functionality for customers to manage their accounts or place orders online. Why? Because by forcing customers to call customer service reps they can reduce cancellation rates and increase sales of additional products. They are no longer in business.
October 18, 2016 at 9:05 am
One thing that can be said for single tier development tools like MS Access and FoxPro, they allow a developer to quickly stove pipe a complete functional solution without being handicapped by all the usual IT codswallop of stakeholder meetings, upfront design, funding, QA and database administration. You just meet with the end user at their desk, jot down a few notes, and then get to work. :satisfied:
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 18, 2016 at 10:09 am
Eric M Russell (10/17/2016)
VB6 and even FoxPro applications still thriving and multiplying in some IT shops despite having no evolution in it's digital DNA for almost 20 years.
Definitely true for FoxPro work here in my world. Actually, it's still working great as it did 15+ years ago, with no end in sight.
October 18, 2016 at 10:21 am
Eric M Russell (10/18/2016)
One thing that can be said for single tier development tools like MS Access and FoxPro, they allow a developer to quickly stove pipe a complete functional solution without being handicapped by all the usual IT codswallop of stakeholder meetings, upfront design, funding, QA and database administration. You just meet with the end user at their desk, jot down a few notes, and then get to work. :satisfied:
Well said. I've been using MySQL and MariaDB since 2005 with Visual FoxPro (VFP) on the front end (using logical n-tier design) and it's been a wonderful ride. Just the other day, I was retooling a VFP9/MariaDB app to instead use the freebie SQL Server 2014 Express edition on the backend, and found out it wouldn't handle the 28 GB I needed. I also related to Steve's post the other day about the rants of SQL Server not always being easy to install. Gotta say, MySQL/MariaDB is not only super easy to install, but of course very little if any cost. (No cost for what I'm doing.) And I still can easily secure it.
Until 32-bit apps are no more (which won't be in my working lifetime--20 more years), I'm loving VFP apps against that MySQL backend. Powerful, quick to design, no limitations. And did I mention free??
For web apps, I know VFP is used by some and works well, but I'm sure modern-day web languages might work best. But for desktop apps, "steady as she goes" for this sailor.
October 20, 2016 at 8:01 am
Dave Convery (10/15/2016)
...ponder the issues future code archaeologists are going to have with ever-changing web frameworks they encounter...
This is an issue now and one which is being swept under the carpet.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
October 20, 2016 at 10:44 am
Michael J. Babcock (10/18/2016)
Eric M Russell (10/18/2016)
One thing that can be said for single tier development tools like MS Access and FoxPro, they allow a developer to quickly stove pipe a complete functional solution without being handicapped by all the usual IT codswallop of stakeholder meetings, upfront design, funding, QA and database administration. You just meet with the end user at their desk, jot down a few notes, and then get to work. :satisfied:
Codswallop - new expression for me - I had to look that one up.
OK. There are certainly some situations where this is possibly a good thing. However, the inherent risk in 'one-off' solutions may lie down the road for you or your unfortunate successor when the user and/or company decides that this stand-alone solution needs to be integrated with other systems, included with larger analysis, or shared with other users. There is almost certain be data that is inaccurate, invalid, different formats, or just plain doesn't work with the larger scenario. Integration nearly always makes sense for just these reasons. Individually created data without overall shared validation is a huge headache for the future. Stove-piping is rarely a wise choice if it can be avoided.
Rick
Disaster Recovery = Backup ( Backup ( Your Backup ) )
October 20, 2016 at 10:54 am
While I agree that much of the "codswallop" could be done away with tomorrow, there is a certain amount of "irreducible minimum" that is needed to be sure it's complete, documented, functional and well-designed and possesses some minimal adherence to company guidelines.
One can cause quite a few problems without some of the "guardrails" that exist in IT to protect the business goals.
October 20, 2016 at 11:47 am
samuel.shollenberger (10/20/2016)
While I agree that much of the "codswallop" could be done away with tomorrow, there is a certain amount of "irreducible minimum" that is needed to be sure it's complete, documented, functional and well-designed and possesses some minimal adherence to company guidelines.One can cause quite a few problems without some of the "guardrails" that exist in IT to protect the business goals.
OK, I was being facetious in my earlier post when I stated that tools like MS Access empower developers to "stove pipe" solutions outside the formal life cycle of design, development, QA, deployment, and support. I wasn't advocating it; just putting myself into the head of folks who still use it today.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 20, 2016 at 12:11 pm
Eric M Russell (10/18/2016)
One thing that can be said for single tier development tools like MS Access and FoxPro, they allow a developer to quickly stove pipe a complete functional solution without being handicapped by all the usual IT codswallop of stakeholder meetings, upfront design, funding, QA and database administration. You just meet with the end user at their desk, jot down a few notes, and then get to work. :satisfied:
Well until you end up with a critical production system being run off some random person's desktop :pinch:
October 20, 2016 at 12:22 pm
ZZartin (10/20/2016)
Well until you end up with a critical production system being run off some random person's desktop :pinch:
Hence the need for source code control in the Company's DVCS.
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