January 11, 2016 at 10:34 am
roger.plowman (1/11/2016)
100 hours? You're off by an order of magnitude.Assuming you spend a full year working @ 40 hours/week that's 2,080 hours.
It takes *at least* two months (8 weeks or 320 hours) to gain basic proficiency with a language, its syntax, and the *basic* methods used in the language (unless you want to write VB programs in C++!). That's working with it 8 hours a day. Basic proficiency means (for instance) using pointers in C or set-based programming in T/SQL and not having to google every single line of code for the proper syntax. IDEs help, but they aren't a panacea.
True proficiency takes at least 6 months (1,040 hours) and fluency (basic mastery) takes at least a year (2,080 hours).
And that's just the *language*, not counting frameworks and all the other tools.
You want to be guru-level? 5 years. At least.
The editorial didn't say 100 hours for basic proficiency, true proficiency, guru-level; it was 100 hours to become much more competent than an absolute beginner. I think also the timescales being mentioned are assuming everyone learns and remembers things at the same rate.
January 11, 2016 at 10:43 am
xsevensinzx (1/10/2016)
I think 100 hours would surely put you beyond a complete newbie in something. The problem I faced when learning Python in the past 3 years is retention of knowledge.Anyone who has used Python knows it's pretty simple in syntax. If you programmed or scripted in other languages, it's not to hard to jump into. The issue with retention is just based on usage. Learning something for 100 hours and never using it for weeks or months on end is often forgotten in my brain sometimes.
So, I feel regardless of any amount of hours in usage, the real key is just consistency. I can likely benefit a lot more from learning Python if I did 100 hours spread out over the course of 6 months then in a few weeks. That consistent shot of, "oh, yeah" over the course of 6 months is going to train my brain to remember easier than cramming it all in for a single test.
Agree. One reason I'm actively trying to use multiple languages lately to solve things is to build skill in all of them, spreading my 100 hours out.
January 11, 2016 at 10:47 am
roger.plowman (1/11/2016)
100 hours? You're off by an order of magnitude.Assuming you spend a full year working @ 40 hours/week that's 2,080 hours.
It takes *at least* two months (8 weeks or 320 hours) to gain basic proficiency with a language, its syntax, and the *basic* methods used in the language (unless you want to write VB programs in C++!). That's working with it 8 hours a day. Basic proficiency means (for instance) using pointers in C or set-based programming in T/SQL and not having to google every single line of code for the proper syntax. IDEs help, but they aren't a panacea.
...
I'd disagree. If you know C, it doesn't take 320 hours to get some proficiency with C#. You'd see similar constructs and capabilities. You'd be able to start to gain lots of knowledge on new ways of managing code in a dozen or so hours.
Note that I'm not saying you're going to be an expert at all. That isn't the idea or point. You'd be reasonably competent. In 30 hours, spread over 30+ days, I gained quite a bit of Powershell knowledge, and I think most people familiar software would. They'd be able to write programs and solve problems.
Googling for syntax, IMHO, isn't bad. You're not googling for understanding, but the specific implementation of something you know can be done, or have done, but don't remember the exact steps. That's familiarity you're fighting, not skill.
January 11, 2016 at 11:01 am
Once you gain experience with one .NET language, learn the framework and GUI, it's earier to learn another .NET language. For example, a C# developer probably could ramp up on VB.NET or F# with only 100 hours of targeted training or study. However, going from Windows / ASP.NET / C# to Linux / Apachee / PHP; that would require learning an entirely new technology stack.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
January 11, 2016 at 1:24 pm
It depends what your base knowledge is and whether you understand the fundamental principles.
If you don't understand the principles you will be learning by rote and unless you are one of the rare individuals with photographic memory this will take a long time.
If you understand the fundamental principles you kind of have the basics already.
Those make your task one of building on top of well dug foundations.
As with everything else practice makes perfect
January 11, 2016 at 10:23 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/11/2016)
xsevensinzx (1/10/2016)
I think 100 hours would surely put you beyond a complete newbie in something. The problem I faced when learning Python in the past 3 years is retention of knowledge.Anyone who has used Python knows it's pretty simple in syntax. If you programmed or scripted in other languages, it's not to hard to jump into. The issue with retention is just based on usage. Learning something for 100 hours and never using it for weeks or months on end is often forgotten in my brain sometimes.
So, I feel regardless of any amount of hours in usage, the real key is just consistency. I can likely benefit a lot more from learning Python if I did 100 hours spread out over the course of 6 months then in a few weeks. That consistent shot of, "oh, yeah" over the course of 6 months is going to train my brain to remember easier than cramming it all in for a single test.
Agree. One reason I'm actively trying to use multiple languages lately to solve things is to build skill in all of them, spreading my 100 hours out.
http://www.hackerank.com helps a bit if you like doing complex problem solving or competitive programming. I use it for Python to keep my skills sharpen.
One of the other problems I face is not generally the syntax, but the approach. I can create a API with Python, hook it up to SQL Server and be on my way. HackerRank helps me solve problems I have not yet run into in my field.
January 12, 2016 at 10:10 am
Thanks, will check it out.
January 13, 2016 at 11:25 am
100 hours may give you an appreciation of an subject or language, but it usefulness depends totally on the circumstances. There's broad and deep knowledge that isn't easy for a newbie to acquire in a short time.
100 hours of Python to experienced developer is useful. To a raw beginner it's barely a start. 100 hours of radio orientation and training will help a new ham radio tech, but it's not going to make them an experienced engineer/operator with the years of math, skills and experience.
January 13, 2016 at 2:01 pm
chrisn-585491 (1/13/2016)
100 hours may give you an appreciation of an subject or language, but it usefulness depends totally on the circumstances. There's broad and deep knowledge that isn't easy for a newbie to acquire in a short time.100 hours of Python to experienced developer is useful. To a raw beginner it's barely a start. 100 hours of radio orientation and training will help a new ham radio tech, but it's not going to make them an experienced engineer/operator with the years of math, skills and experience.
Yep.
My context here was in learning more about computing as a computer person. I think 100 hours gets you pretty far.
January 14, 2016 at 2:14 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/13/2016)
...My context here was in learning more about computing as a computer person. I think 100 hours gets you pretty far.
I can certainly agree with that.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 17, 2016 at 4:39 pm
patrickmcginnis59 10839 (1/11/2016)
tnpich (1/11/2016)
I don't disagree with what's been posted previously. The practice part is essential.As to the article, some context is needed around the statement "for most disciplines, it only takes one hundred hours of active learning to become much more competent than an absolute beginner.".
Since an absolute beginner would likely have zero competency, how much is "...much more competent"? Some type of qualitative or quantitative
description is required
How many more times competent than someone with zero competence? Why the answer is undefined of course!
Funny...
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