VM... Setting up new "box"

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VM... Setting up new "box"

Jeff Moden

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January 15, 2009 at 12:37 pm

#94631

First, forgive my ignorance because I don't even know how to spell "VM"... 😀
My understanding of VM-ware is that you can setup a new "box", complete with SQL Server installed, in the proverbial blink of an eye. First, I think it'll take a little longer than that and second, I think it should takes something less than the 2 weeks some cowboy told me it would take.
So, my friends, I ask you who have actually done or have knowledge of such a thing... provided that the hardware to support the VM systems is already available (including the SAN spindles), that the VM-ware already has enough licenses, and that the SQL Server software and appropriate licenses is also available, how long should it take to build a server on VM-ware? Although bonafide links would certainly help me launch some pork chops at the Gumbies giving me the "2 weeks" line of hooie, any and all comments are certainly welcome...
Thanks for the help, folks.
--Jeff Moden
RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)

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Michael Earl-395764 SSC Guru Points: 53873 More actions · Answer 1

2 weeks? It sounds like you and I work at the same company.

We do use VMWare for our development environment. For a new SQL server we have two options.

One is to clone an existing server. That already has SQL running on it. The act of cloning a medium size server (100gb of databases) takes about 2 minutes. The renaming, changing of IP addresses, and setting up any AD accounts to go with it - well, that apparently takes anywhere from 10-45 days.

The other option is to create a new virtual server from scratch. Again, as long as you have the resources to do it, creating the server takes as long as installing the OS, joining the network, and then installing SQL. I do this somewhat regularly with virtual PC on my workstation and it takes a day if I click on the dialogs in the background while I work.

Luke L SSC-Dedicated Points: 35547 More actions · Answer 2

Yeah 2 weeks is a bit extreme.

While we're just getting into using VMware for Our Dev and QA stuff I know that this can be done in any number of ways...

Like Michael, if you sit there and click on all of the dialog boxes it takes no longer than doing the installs from DVD's on a physical box, actually less time to do the higher IO you can get outta ISOs and such...

However with VM templates you can make your life much easier... If I could create a simple windows template that I can clone VM's from, basically what happens is the same as using sysprep with your physical machines... You load up the new vm give it a name and such and in a few minutes you have your fully configured server ready for your SQL install...

If you're then using one of the scripted SQL install methods it's however long it takes for that to finish based on your configurations...

Basically you're looking at anywhere from 5 minutes to 4 hours I'd say if you want to go in and tweak your security settings and such...

I'm not sure you'll be able to find any specs on this type of thing, because like everything in our world It Depends, on IO, Memory, CPU resources, the size of the VM you're cloning (your actually doing a file copy) etc etc etc... so I dont' think you'll really find solid metrics to toss in with your chops, but if you have access to a vmware TAM(technical account manager) they should be able to provide you some decent ammunition.

-Luke.

To help us help you read this[/url]For better help with performance problems please read this[/url]

Luke L SSC-Dedicated Points: 35547 More actions · Answer 3

Not sure how much this would help, but I just went through one of VMware's classes... In the class there were 12 students, 2 students per ESX server. During 1 of the lab's we each needed to provision 3 windows server 03 boxes each. Provisioning 36 windows boxes spread over 6 ESX servers from templates on a SAN took about an hour give or take?

Granted they were bare bones windows 2k3 sp 2 boxes, No SQL or anything, but you get the idea.

To help us help you read this[/url]For better help with performance problems please read this[/url]

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736280 More actions · Answer 4

I haven't done this with VMWare in awhile, but it should take minutes to set up a new "box" from the VM Ware standpoint. That's new, from scratch. After that, you have a "box" and the install is the time it takes to install software.

If you're smart, you save off a Windows "box" (patched of course) and then "clone this" when you need a new machine.

If you're really smart, you save a Windows box with SQL installed and clone that.

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736280 More actions · Answer 5

By the way I have seen very controlled environments, like banks or financial firms, take two weeks to set up a new box, but that's usually approvals and someone going into the data center, verifying space in a rack, power, etc. With a VM, most of that time is gone and you're down to approvals.

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004372 More actions · Answer 6

That's pretty much what I heard the "rumor" was. Thanks for the confirmation, Steve.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004372 More actions · Answer 7

Michael and Luke... same there. Glad to see the "rumors" I heard are absolutely true. 2 weeks has nothing to do with how long it takes... it's more like something less than 15 minutes, plus politics. 😛

Those are some pretty detailed answers and just exactly the ammunition I need for my problem. Thanks for taking the time to drop a dime on this one. I sure do appreciate it.

Heh... ya just gotta know the folks that told me two weeks are going to see just a wad of pork chops headed in their direction. 😛

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736280 More actions · Answer 8

wait, I thought pork chops were heads on pikes? Are you throwing heads of former developers? Or creating new ones? :hehe:

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004372 More actions · Answer 9

Heh... "It Depends". 😛

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736280 More actions · Answer 10

Steve Jones - SSC Editor

SSC Guru

Points: 736280

January 19, 2009 at 9:58 pm

#929485

Pork chops flying yet?

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004372 More actions · Answer 11

Successfully launched on 1/16.

The whole purpose of VM was to be able to react quickly... unfortunately, they don't actually have enough hardware to do what is necessary and that's what it always comes to... having enough physical hardware to support the VM. They just didn't want to admit that they don't have enough hardware to support the new requirements because, basically, they didn't think we'd ever need it. Operative words there are "didn't think" with a unhealthy mix of "didn't read". We gave them the requirements 2 months ago. Apparently, they thought we were kidding.

I can see their dilema, though. Everyone is making cutbacks... they just screwed up and hit bone.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Michael Earl-395764 SSC Guru Points: 53873 More actions · Answer 12

We had an interesting issue recently. One of our VM farms was performing very poorly for me. It turned out that they had purchased about 2/3 of the memory we had asked for to handle the group of servers, but over-allocated the memory on all of the servers.

Basically, they had 64GB of physical memory allocated to 4 servers. 2 of the servers had 32GB of memory and the other 2 servers each had 16GB of memory. Yeah - apparently this is the NEW math - 32 + 32 + 16 + 16 = 64.

VMWare lets you do this and it uses memory swapping to allocate the memory to the server that is actively using it. This would be fine except this is a test environment for a data warehouse and the cube processing put a load on all 4 servers at the same time.

Since we had budgeted for the physical hardware we asked where our money went. We never did get an answer, but some miracle caused 32GB more physical memory to appear.

Jeff Moden SSC Guru Points: 1004372 More actions · Answer 13

I guess that's why I don't like VM ware... people make decisions for you that they're either not qualified to make or they give you what THEY think is good enough and they rarely ask what the heck you need and why you need it because they think that would make them look like they don't know what they're doing. Vicious circle... and it's all based on "pride" instead of getting things done right. I hate turf wars and VM seems, at least in my shop, to provide plenty of them.

--Jeff Moden

RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

Helpful Links:
How to post code problems
How to Post Performance Problems
Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

Steve Jones - SSC Editor SSC Guru Points: 736280 More actions · Answer 14

VMs don't kill servers, server administrators kill servers.

Don't blame VMS, it's an ignorance thing, same as any other new tool we get. Usually we give them to the "Simple Jacks" of the world, regardless of whether they understand what they're getting or not.