CS Degree or No?
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OK, I know this is a fairly basic question but I need to boost my spirits right now...
How many of you are doing high-level architectural / design work (senior-level position) yet don't have a CS degree?
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I was one of the Senior Database Guys for a major financial services company and now I'm the Senior Architect for a mid-sized bank. My degree is in experimental psychology, so, based on educational background, I'm only qualified to shock rats.
I fell into programming (COBOL on punch cards, yes, I'm that old) and later got into DBMSs and the rest was accomplished with insatiable curiosity and the willingness to learn from everyone I met. The lessons I learned in psychology classes helped instill a healthy respect for the scientific method of problem solving and working with rats has helped me deal with senior management in some of the companies in my working past, but everything I needed to know, I learned by keeping my ears open, my mouth shut, and trying out everything I could get my hands on.
It's been my experience that the good companies I've worked for, including the Bank, judged candidates on their demonstrated accomplishments rather than the length of the initials after their names on their current business cards.
And then again, I might be wrong ...
David Webb -
I've pretty much notched up 10 years of IT experience, and I don't have a CS degree (though I do have a Graduate Diploma in CS). My background is in Physics (MSc) and I hold a teaching diploma as well as two microsoft certifications.
Having said all this, I agree with David that experience in a company that offers training and career progression is the most important, this way you can gain a balanced knowledge within your particular area, as well as keeping up with new(er) technologies.
I do however find the Graduate Diploma and the certifications to be of some benefit, and in certain cases, may have just put me ahead of the other applicants for a new job!
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I'm not a neophyte by any means. I've been getting paid to play with computers for over 12 years. I've taken the trainings offered to me, learned what I could from my seniors, volunteered for opportunities and also created my own ones so that I could grow and learn. In fact, right now I'm on a contract position in a different state than home that I took just so I could get the experiences that the position offered.
I guess my worry is that I've plateaued and that I won't be able to go any further without some sort of degree / certification (that is, besides my ABD in philosophy...)
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So, where would you like to go? If you know what the target is, and you're actively working to pick of the skills necessary to make you successful in that arena, you can't go too far wrong. It sounds like you have the curiosity, intellegence, and drive and you're alert to opportunities. You can't be in a better position than that.
At least you're not an English major
And then again, I might be wrong ...
David Webb -
I wanna be the next Joe Celko
No, seriously, I want to be an expert in database design and theory. I want to be a high-priced (because well-respected) consultant in a job where I get to travel occasionally.
The jobs are there, I've seen them. I just have to figure out how to convince them that I'm the perfect person for that job...
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Good luck! I haven't gone the hired gun route because I'm one of those people who REALLY likes to know where my next meal is coming from (it's not lack of confidence or talent, it's not! it's not!).
Have you though about teaching, just to get your name out among the community? Some of the people in the field I really admire do a lot of seminar and class work. Being on these forums is probably a good move too, as are article for the technical and business magazines.
Just as a point of curiosity, from the hired guns out there, does your presence here generate any income or do you just contribute for the sheer joy of helping your fellow man?
And then again, I might be wrong ...
David Webb -
Thanks.
Coincidentally enough, I have been mulling over the idea of starting to publish and/or teach. I just have to figure out what subject I want to tackle. There's a few ideas rolling around in my head, I'm just waiting for one to stick.
Hmmm, how about one on best practices for maintainability I could write volumes on that. Think it'd get me pilloried, though?
I've pretty much been a "hired gun" for most of my professional life (I even started out as an office temp). It seems to work for me as I like the variety. (Then there's that whole ride in and save the day scenario that's quite the ego boost.
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No...
I have a degree and post grad in Biology. When I joined the computing services department of a university 20 years ago, I told them I had no qualifications in computing. "Good!" they said "Neither do the people you will be supporting". The explained that they did not recruit CS graduates, because they needed people who could explain computers in a language that those with no experience of them could understand (apologies to all you CS graduates reading this, their explanation, not mine).
I actually joined to support computer graphics, but was told "You've done dBASE III. Here's the Oracle 5 documentation, you are now the DBA". I have been hanging around databases ever since, its a hard habit to break. I did get to meet up with some of the Joint Photographic Experts Group (JPEG) folks, and attended a demo of NCSA Mosaic at an internet conference in Pisa (when the tower was still leaning).
Since then I have been administering databases, designing enterprise systems management solutions (SQL Server based), developing database systems in VB, Centaura and Delphi, and am currently working in the telcoms industry as a one-man DBA and systems designer/developer.
Its been a lot a of fun, and I have never once regretted leaving the world of Insect-Plant interactions (talking trees, no really, they use chemicals). And although I have a few certificates, I still don't have a CS degree.
David
If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
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I think the real distinction is not CS degree or not, but degree or not. Not having a degree will stop many companies from considering a person, regardless of experience or technical courses, and keep one's pay rate down.
I have a BME (mechanical engineering), yet I couldn't design a screw to save my life. All my co-op work ended up being computers because that's what was needed where I worked, then I fell into a part-time programming/db job that ended up being full-time (somewhere in there I finally graduated). From there, becoming an ME would have meant a pay-cut to go back to entry level, and I really enjoy what I'm doing.
Most people don't bat an eye at my degree. It's "technical" and it's a degree.
My husband, on the other hand, has no degree. He hated college, couldn't get past physics and calc, so he taught himself to program the Macintosh in C, got a job selling Performas at Sears and found someone looking at Performas in his department who was looking to hire an entry-level Macintosh C programmer. Talk about a lucky break! From there, he moved into many different technologies, including databases and Windows development, finally ending up as an expert C++ programmer and OO designer working on an open-source product in cooperation with a major university (the professor in charge doesn't let CS undergrads work on it because it's considered grad-level work).
So, no you don't need a CS degree. However, my husband has had a lot of companies turn down his resume, or get a special exception to hire a non-degreed professional. He is finally almost done with his CS degree (transferred to a college that didn't require calc and physics for CS) but it was painful for him to go back to classes teaching programming basics. He learned almost nothing getting the degree, but it will be essential job security.
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I'm still laughing over "..working with rats has helped me deal with senior management in some of the companies in my working past"..
However, am pretty
over "at least you're not an English major"...I'm one and surprisingly enough it has stood me in good stead in many an interview..communication skills are an integral part of job skills and my background has definitely aided me here..In the D.C metro area, post 9/11 has added on another "skillset requirement"....active secret clearance...more often than not I find this being used as a hiring mantra even more than experience, degrees etc..
Pam...not to criticise your aspirations or anything..but when you become the next Joe Celko (even though I personally feel he's inimitable), let your tongue not lash anywhere as much with scathers, scorchers & stingers...
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
... And like always one can tell how much you "appretiate" J C
Cheers,
* Noel -
Sorry about the English major crack. No offense intended. The ability to use language skillfully and accurately is a talent and a discipline that can't be too highly rated. Half the problems I solve on a day-to-day basis stem from communication difficulties. My only excuse is that I was thinking about A Prairie Home Companion and the trials and travails of Garrison Keilor's English major character.
I was serious about the rats, though.
And then again, I might be wrong ...
David Webb -
oops..was I not subtle enough ?!
David - was just kidding around...wasn't really miffed - no need for an apology.
**ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI !!!** -
Nether do I. Degree in Economics and Commerce, I "always" worked in the "computer" environment. And, I AM A WOMAN. This is usually a MEN's job....
The fist job that I've got was for a male engineer... and they found me.
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