Today''s article - Bogus resumes and unblushing lies
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It was a very good article. But I also wanted to add something, sometimes the management should be the one to blame, they don't know a good SQL developer vs a bad developer because they don't know SQL themselves. The VP of my company claimed that SQL was easy, anyone could write it. He had no idea how complicate it could be.
Maybe the people put down they are skilled / experted in SQL. Actually they thought they were skilled once they knew how to write 'SELECT * FROM TableA'. In my company 90% of the developers claimed they knew SQL and all they wrote was 'SELECT * FROM TableA'. My Team lead claimed he was an expert in SQL. The other day he had to create a backup table. He complained it would take me a couple hour to write a 'CREATE TABLE' statement and then a 'INSERT ' statement. So I told him to write 'SELECT * INTO TableB FROM TableA'. This way the table would be automatically created with the same schema of TableA and had data in it.
So he is my team lead and he is an expert in SQL ?!!!!! How ironic !!!
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This was removed by the editor as SPAM
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Agree with that. Management often doesn't know who is qualified and who isn't. Heck, in many companies the DBA is alone and no one is qualified to interview them!!!!
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I too agree with steve.
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It's even worse when highly paid contractors are given the work your team could have done and then have to come and ask you for help with something as simple as using parameters in a stored procedure!!
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So here is challenge for the SQL Server Central community as a whole:
This board probably has more collective wisdom, experience, skills, and technical knowledge than any group of half a dozen DB people on the planet. Other than the half a dozen people on this board with posting counts over 3000 or so.
Given that, what group is more qualified to assess the skills of an individual than this board? I am speaking not of a pass/fail assessment, but perhaps more of an objective, relative ranking where 1 is basic knowledge and 5 is guru-level. Pick whaetever numbers make sense to you. Maybe it makes more sense to measure ourselves using one of the guild rankings such as apprentice/journeyman/master/grand master?
There is a thread live in the General forum called "Must knows of SQL Server". Lets suppose someone took this list of must knows, studied a bit, practiced a bit, and said "I am now an expert". How might this group determine if the person is or is not an expert?
A related question is "Expert in what aspect of DB work"? Certainly architect is different than application developer, which is different from production/operational support. Do these distinctions matter?
How might we go about determing if the person really knows there stuff, or is simply good at bluffing?
I think this ties in to the thread I am posting in because I am unaware of an existing method to determine objectively if someone is truly qualified or simply knows how to interview well. The key word here is objectively.
Assuming we can come up with an objective method of assessing a persons skill set, how might we be able to use the results to add value in our profession and reduce the number of liars masquerading as DBAs?
So much for the questions. Now I'll set myself up to get flamed, although that is not my intention. Microsoft has spent a lot of time, energy, and money building up the credibility of their certifications. I have worked with firms that sponsored those certifications simply so that the firm could get access to free software. In at least one of those firms, the people who were chosen to get certified were the least qualified staff members and were chosen simply so that they could study and take the exams and no one would notice if they were missing from the team for a few days. I am certain that many people are highly qualified and that the certifications reflect their qualifications. However, there are also a great number of people who are completely clueless and simply know how to take a test. How do we avoid this issue in a professional manner?
I have thoughts on all of these questions, but would like to hear your thoughts before I say too much more.
Comments?
Have a great day!
Wayne
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Throughout the history of man, he has searched for the holy grail of objective assessment of others. The only certainty that I have found is that, the more criteria/hoops/steps you place on achieving whatever label, the more absolutely certain it is that there will NOT be any correlation between that label of competence and actual competence.
Seriously. What are the figures for the number of deaths each year caused by incompetence within the medical field? And yet, somehow this AMA certification is supposed to be trustworthy. The common argument is, "Well, without the AMA there to certify doctors, millions more would die..." But where is the proof of that statement?
To shore that up, they created "Board Certifications" for various specialties, yet still people are maimed or die by the thousands each year. Certainly there must be a "this time we really mean it, this doctor is A-OK, certification" on the horizon.
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle says that you can either know the location of a particle or where it's going but you cannot know both at the same time. I suspect that this is a fundamental truth and can be applied in various aspects of life: The only thing a certification will show is who was adequate at achieving that certification. Period.
You want a certification that might actually have some meaning? Make the agency that issues the certificate (massively punitatively) liable for any mistake made by the holder of the certificate. Oh, wait, nobody would want to give out certificates then... hmmm, what might that indicate?
Reality always wins.
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Bogus resumes and unblushing lies is good article, and I totally agree with Steve and
all of you except fallen Angel.
I enjoyed response from Wayne Layton and then John with AMA certification and Heisenburg theory.
I know that Bogus resumes and unblushing lies definitely hurts everyone at every walk of our life but here is my understanding to the issue that is broader than that.
Don’t you think we are all immune to this way of living, and more than being immune
we in fact forget to think other better ways of living. Think if some one tries to do it different way we as society do not want to recognize him.
I am talking in global terms across the board, so please, no one should take this personally and there is not iota of intention to hurt any individuals from this writing.
Think of some examples in various situation.
Politics
Are there any certification or recognition required for being political leader any where in the world? Do you need any degree plus experience to be a President, Prime Minister or Dictator of any country?
Do you believe that all Presidents or Prime Ministers always stick to truth?
[on the contarary general opinion is otherwise]
But still we cry now and then, this one lied, the other one lied etc…
Corporate Sector:
Do we really take it as truth that 50 % off, or buy 1 get 1 is true and is going to be an honest bid by corporate sectors to help and reach out to all sagments of society.
Medicine:
Do doctors keep track and show their failure rate and their misbehavior and fraud.
Do you believe that there are no scam master doctors? You can include insurance.
By the way doctors find narrow escape by saying what they do is practice.
What lawyers do is also practise [Making someones life miserable].
What Politician do is also more or less practice [Try War and see if it works],
What’s wrong with poor Programmer/DBA’s and I don’t think society is at higher risk by programmer/DBA in practice than doctor or politician in practice.
This is not an attempt to say or justify that Bogus resumes are ok , but I don’t see cure to that in near future.
Once you build better society/community automatically this type of issues will not fly anymore. Unless that happen unfortunately we will live with this problem.
By the way Bill Gates, George Washington, Albert Einstein, Henry Ford, Mahatma Gandhi were not the one with Brilliant resumes on their sides.
True interviewer should try to find the talent and should posses skill to check knowledge and give opportunity based on that, and for practical purpose explain to candidate few legal options that company is keeping open to drop you in worst case if company find uncomfortable working together and that too with small timeframe truly of say week or 2 . Still after that if you cannot judge right person keep him on board and think it is error of judgment on your part that needs improvement and you are paying for it.
It’s not big deal really when you compare patient loosing life to doctors error of judgment and soldier throwing life to error of judgment from President / PrimeMinister.
Kindest Regards,
Sameer Raval [Sql Server DBA]
Geico Insurance
RavalSameer@hotmail.com -
Semeer Raval
You disagreed with me because of what I wrote in this thread or just because of what I wrote in other threads.
I think I built up an army of enemy in this website.
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Fallen Angel,
For sure this has nothing to do with previous thread.
Whatever I have to say, was said up front on that thread.
Even I don't think there is any sort of animosity from any members with you
Now to the question of disagreement, regarding this thread
I see the things or even problems, not in part but as a whole.
Your concerns to me always looks like mere frustration at job place.
When we talk in terms of Freedom [freedom of speech] we should
listen to others, If your VP say he knows everything in Sql, why it hurts you,
probably it should not and for any reason if it hurts and you cannot take it,
be bold enough to help him know that you disagree with him only on that count,if you do that honestly and politely I don't think he should feel hurt. If he is not happy and mad at you for this, then you will realise anyway it was not worth working with him. Writing Personal grievances of job place in discussion forms and that to for the employer who for you now is your bread and butter, to me does not sound trustworthy or good idea.
This is my take on your comment in this thread , you can as always disagree with that,saying one last time that I will be happy if you count me as your friend with different thoughts and ideas. If you do not wish me to comment in your future thread let me know, I have my mailid in profile as well.,
Thanks,
Kindest Regards,
Sameer Raval [Sql Server DBA]
Geico Insurance
RavalSameer@hotmail.com
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