April 21, 2005 at 8:27 am
I have attained my MCDBA Cert and wanted to say, I agree. The MCDBA, in no way ensures a level of expertise but rather a broad range of knowledge in the area of Relational Database. I think the process (if administered right, not a Boot Camp) provides a great learning opportunity for both the novice and the seasoned expert. I also have a great pride in receiving the Certification.
April 21, 2005 at 9:49 am
Presently I am not certified ('certifiable' possibly). I've worked with SQL Server since v4.2 on NT v3.5. My thoughts on certification are, well it's just not cost effective nor does it take into account the 'real' world (I also do Sybase, DB2 and a bit of Oracle). The 'certified' professionals I've met have run the gamut in skills in my career. Unfortunately if the problem is not presented exactly in 'Microsoft speak' the solution is generally not at hand. Presently my employer is offering MCSE amd MCDBA training for me (an I am taking it). After all it's their dime and to my advantage at least on paper. Also, just because I am not certified does not mean that I have not taken any training courses nor read books. Quite to the contrary, my latest courses were SQL2K5 Admin; SRS; and Oracle 9i admin; and Oracle 10G and performance tuning. I will give the 'certification' program some credit, it has evolved since it's inception but it needs to evolve more. Being a DBA is more of a 'craft' and there are different specialties. I agree that it's time that MCDBA gets fine tuned (broken down) into a few more granular areas. My suggestions would be: Development, Modeling, Support, DTS (ETL as a possible subset) and Analysis (BI tools as a subset). With categories such as these then one might be able to discern ranks such as apprentice, journeyman, craftsman and master craftsman. Kind of like the medieval guild system.
RegardsRudy KomacsarSenior Database Administrator"Ave Caesar! - Morituri te salutamus."
April 21, 2005 at 10:09 am
The MCDBA Cert Does need to evolve more, I agree. As with any training or education, improvement is the utmost, as are refining processes. As far as the "Real World" issue, the certification deals with "Real World issue's", but to cover every area, the test would last for days, and the certification would require years of training. The process provides a snap shot, and teaches you how to resolve issue, were to research, etc. I've worked with relational Databases for over 10 years (DB2 primarily), and I've seen this industry evolve with greater advances, but education cannot keep up with the ever changing world. The MCDBA Cert provides what you want it to, so it depend on you. I've been fortunate to work as a junior DBA to gain more knowledge, which I get from our more experienced/seasoned Senior DBA as well.
July 3, 2005 at 10:42 am
True innovation comes not from the master of the domain, but from those seeking to change it for the better. They typically don't come in the form of seasoned masters. In the age of constantly changing domains, should a certification program (unlike that of a area of expertise requiring a license) be anything more than showing a willingness to learn. The greatest innovators of our time were not the masters of the craft, but rather those willing to learn new things and proving there are always better ways. Going back to medieval ways would certainly prove a detriment to the profession. Like a degree which I attained with the hardest work of my life, and am tired of hearing so many call it simply a "piece of paper", true professionals prove they can think, not simply do. The latter is too easy to prove anything.
July 3, 2005 at 2:39 pm
to cover every area, the test would last for days, and the certification would require years of training….. but education cannot keep up with the ever changing world. The MCDBA Cert provides what you want it to, so it depends on you.
When considering certification two questions need to be asked. First, what is the purpose of certification? Second, does the current certification process measure what it claims to measure in an effective and fair manner?
The purpose of certification is to provide evidence by an impartial party that the individual has mastered some level of knowledge. If members of the profession and the employers of those professionals acknowledge the certification as being valid it has great value. It gives potential employers a quick and easy way to eliminate the number of potential candidates to a manageable number. Most employers receive 100s if not 1000s of resumes for each opening. When performing the initial scan of resumes (either by humans or machines) the primary purpose is to reduce the number of applicants to a reasonable number. To accomplish this the person or machine will focus on key elements. I.e. Number of years of experience, Certifications, educational level or experience with a particular program. Human Resource professionals know that they maybe eliminating the best candidate using this method. But they also know that in the long run this method gives them the best chance of obtaining an employee who will perform at the expected levels.
Certifications also have value outside of the hiring arena. Some people accumulate certificates for the same reason others climb Mt. Everest. The challenge of doing something that only the best can accomplish draws them to the challenge. It gives them bragging rights with their peers and adds weight to their opinions.
Certification does not necessarily require years of training. If the certification process is valid it demonstrate that a person has obtained the level of knowledge most people have obtained only after years of training. I do not wish to imply that experience does not have value. But I would like to suggest that experience is not always a good indicator of what a person knows. Think of the worse commercial program you have ever used. The individuals who produced that program will claim on their resume all the time they spend developing that program. Five years spent producing a piece of software that does not work counts as experience, but I do not think I would hire that individual based just on his experience.
“but education cannot keep up with the ever changing world.” I would like to suggest that the ever-changing world is the result of education. The changes are due to someone inventing/discovering a method of doing something differently. Education is learning invention and discovery are the products of education. If this new method or technology proves to be effective then it will become established in the marketplace. It is at this point that it will be necessary to devise a method of establishing a person’s expertise with the new technology.
Certification is not about accomplishment, knowledge or expertise. The process of certification is designed to show accomplishment, knowledge and expertise. Some people may climb Mt. Everest and not even bothering to take a picture from the top being satisfied that they know what they accomplished and letting others know what they accomplished is not important. On the other hand some people take pictures and clip news stories so that the entire world will know of their accomplishments. And of course if they wish to establish themselves as a guide it helps to prove that they have been there and done that.
Mike
July 7, 2005 at 12:22 pm
On the practical note:
I am certified in both 7.0 and 2000: MCDBA on SQL 2000 and passed both administration and Development exams on 7.0 before that.
In my experience about 90 % of the cases I encountered were as preparation tests or exam questions.
Moreover, to be MCDBA you have to pass a server exam and a front-end exam. You can not imagine what does it mean. We almost do not have any MCSEs with the database or front end lanquage knowledge and we mostly do not have front end developers with the platform / OS knowledge. It is MCDBA who has at least good understanding on all 3 levels is able to connect these 3 levels.
For example I have to evaluate and explain to system engineers what will be the results of the domain changes or server changes on the applications and I have to explain to ASP developers what is the impact of removing LocalSystem from ACLs from SQL Server folders. I am able to troubleshoot issues that appear to be in the front end (Web Page for example) but actually related to the OS. And the other way around.
You will tell me there are a lot of people who are not certified and have the same knowledge. This is very good. But for me it was a certification preparation process that pointed to me what else I have to learn.
Yelena
Regards,Yelena Varsha
July 7, 2005 at 5:51 pm
There maybe a lot of people out there who claim they know as much as you do. But unless they have the same certifications no one will know for sure. If you have to choose between someone who claims thay can do something and someone who has passed a test showing they know how to do something who do you choose.
Mike
July 7, 2005 at 6:38 pm
I think experience on the resume and a lab test for hiring tends to weed out the chaff from the wheat. Case in point: the last time I was involved in hiring DBAs we had several MCDBAs come in. We also had a non-certified guy apply. When put to the test, the non-certified guy was head and shoulders above the others with respect to database design and methodology. He was the one we hired.
What stood out was some of the MCDBA applicants who were asked simple security questions and completely blew it. I mean simple questions like, "What sort of privileges does the SQL Server service need to run?" While local administrative rights isn't correct, we would have considered that acceptable. We were looking for a weed out answer of "Domain Admin." Two of the three MCDBA applicants claimed SQL Server needed Domain Admin rights in order to run.
Don't get me wrong. Certifications tend to show effort and a willingness to learn and be tested. I value them for such evidence. However, at the end of the day I'm still going to ask questions to see the extend of practical knowledge a candidate has. BTW, Randy Dyess has an ebook of interview questions:
Interviewing the SQL Server DBA
K. Brian Kelley
@kbriankelley
July 7, 2005 at 6:50 pm
Testing applicants is a very good way of determining who will best fill your needs. A company and potential employee should also consider the fit between the employee and the corporate culture. But both of these processes come late in the hiring process. If you only have the money to test 2 or three applicants whom do you choose if you have a 100 applicants. Just as you were looking for a "Knock out" answer to your question many companies use certification as a quick means of eliminating applicants. I agree that in some cases that this is not fair. But IMHO if I do not have the resources to test every applicant then I will go with those who are certified. It would be interesting to know how many companies use certification as a quick way to trim their applicant list. Such a number would enable DBA's to make better decisions as to the value of certification.
Mike
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