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Novice Question

  • June 17, 2004 at 2:55 pm

    #86007

    Guys i'm a VB6 novice creating an app for my company.  Since MS Access can't take the simultaneous connects we may one day need, I'm thinking about creating a small DB on our server that already has SQLserver on it and connecting my app to it.  Since i'm a novice i'm not sure if i will have issues maintaining my DB other than structural changes (which i hope don't happen). 

    Is it dangerous for a novice to create a DB on a server? 

    Do i need experience with SQLserver to do this? I plan to buy a book and the DB isn't going to be that complicated. I also plan to test it on SQLserver developer before implementing it.

    Should a novice programmer not take on the task of creating a DB on a server or is it quite simple to do?

    I've created some apps that work with MS access and that is all. I have a BS degree but my knowledge of databases is on a novice level. If anything goes wrong it will be only me who can fix it. I will have no on-site support.

    My assumption is that a small DB shouldn't be much to maintain.

    Thanks!

  • June 18, 2004 at 3:58 am

    #510978

    Jacob,

    Creating a database in SQL Server can be as easy as creating one in Access. If you are familiar with the client tools that are part of SQL Server (Enterprise Manager (EM) & Query Analyser (QA)), then using EM to create a database is as easy as it is in access.

    Is it dangerous for a novice to create a DB on a server? 

    No, not really. There is no harm in creating a new database. Just take exceptional care when deleting/dropping them!!!

    My assumption is that a small DB shouldn't be much to maintain.

    When you say a small DB, do you mean small as in there is little data, or small as in there are only a few tables? Are you familiar with DB design techniques such as Entity Relationship Models and Normalisation? If the DB is likely to be developed into a full blown back end solution for an application, then putting it on SQL Server in a not so greatly designed state could cause you problems later. You havent mentioned your experience or knowledge in this subject, so forgive me if I am telling you to suck eggs. I am sure myself and many other on here could write a book on maintenance, but the essentials would just be a back up, which is fairly easy to do and can be scheduled.

    If you already have the DB in access, there is a tool in SQL Server called DTS (Data Transfer Services), if you can familiarise yourself with that - then you can simply use DTS to transfer the Access DB structure and data straight into SQL Server. However, as I mentioned before - be sure that the design of the DB is as it should be first. The only thing you cannot transfer in DTS is the queries you may have created in Access. 

    My opinion would be to get your employer to provide some basic SQL admin training, it will be well worth it.

    Hope this helps?

  • June 18, 2004 at 3:46 pm

    #511124

    When you say a small DB, do you mean small as in there is little data, or small as in there are only a few tables?

    Both!

    Are you familiar with DB design techniques such as Entity Relationship Models and Normalisation?

    Yes.

    You havent mentioned your experience or knowledge in this subject, so forgive me if I am telling you to suck eggs. I am sure myself and many other on here could write a book on maintenance, but the essentials would just be a back up, which is fairly easy to do and can be scheduled.

    Thanks very much for your help. I have a CIS Degree. I am familiar with Normalization. My Database knowledge and abilities are minimum but it doesnt seem to be that i have to have a lot of know about SQLserver to use it. I plan to buy a book and read it. I may take a class just to familiarize myself a little. I haven't decided.

    Thanks! 

  • June 18, 2004 at 4:25 pm

    #511125

    You will want to acquire skills in database design concepts, [T-]SQL, SQL Server Administration and Security concepts.

    And the best way to acquire them is by excersising these skills on a SQL Server.

    The ideal thing would be to have a test server installed where You could "mess around" and try things out.

    Should a novice programmer not take on the task of creating a DB on a server or is it quite simple to do?

    You should familiarize yourself with SQL Server before you go ahead on a live server.

    On a test server there is no harm, SQL server is good at administering "itself" but there are some concepts

    that you should learn about. Datafiles, Logfiles, Filegroups, Security, Various database options etc..

    One great strength of SQL Server is that it is quite easy to work with, as well as being a powerful database !.

    And if you have worked on Access before, I think that a switch to SQL Server will brighten up your world

    /rockmoose


    You must unlearn what You have learnt

  • June 21, 2004 at 7:56 am

    #511211

    "Should a novice programmer not take on the task of creating a DB on a server or is it quite simple to do?"

    "You should familiarize yourself with SQL Server before you go ahead on a live server.

    On a test server there is no harm, SQL server is good at administering "itself" but there are some concepts

    that you should learn about. Datafiles, Logfiles, Filegroups, Security, Various database options etc.."

    We don't have a test server. Is one really needed? Is there an alternative? Should i have quite a bit of education before i try to do this? REading a book is not enough?  How basic an education is needed?

    Thanks

  • June 21, 2004 at 9:34 am

    #511273

    First for alternatives:

    Install MSDE (Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Desktop Engine).

    Microsoft has a free admin tool that is webbased:

    (SQL Server Web Data Administrator)

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=C039A798-C57A-419E-ACBC-2A332CB7F959&displaylang=en

    And there are other tools out there as well, open source, for administering MSDE.

    Maybe You could set up this as a test server ?

    I don't know what your situation is out there, but if You have a DBA responsible for the server and he won't let You use it, maybe you could ask him to set up a database for you, and You could provide him with scripts to create the tables and procs etc.

    This way the DBA's is still under control, he is responsible for the server you know , and has to make sure that nothing happens.

    Ok, I am not saying that You would cause any problems, but there are responabilities and policies to take into account.

    Should i have quite a bit of education before i try to do this? REading a book is not enough?  How basic an education is needed?

    Why don't You ask the guys responsible for the server what You have to do so that You can set up your db ?

    Good Luck with everything.

    /rockmoose


    You must unlearn what You have learnt

  • June 21, 2004 at 12:55 pm

    #511307

    thanks rockmoose!

    Maybe i should have explained more. There is no DBA. WE only have a network guy. Our MIS department knows nothing about much of their equipment. If I work with SQL server, I will be responsible for my on app and DB.  As long as my DB doesnt interfere with their DB on the same server i am fine.

    Also I'm interested in maintaining my own DB. I'm wondering if there will be a lot of work. Or issues that i will need to know about that will or may come up.

    I bought SQL server Developer for $39.  I was planning to use it for testing purposes before full deployment. Is there any relationship between it and MSDE?

    What do you think? thanks!  We are all novices here.  Other than me, there will be no one else to bail me out.

  • June 22, 2004 at 11:49 am

    #511489

    If everyone is Ok with You setting up your db, I can't see why not.

    Also I'm interested in maintaining my own DB. I'm wondering if there will be a lot of work. Or issues that i will need to know about that will or may come up.

    Learn how to make/restore backups and how the security in sql server works. That's probably thee most basic knowledge you will need to manage your db.

    You will also need to know T-SQL and database design to make good use of your database.

    To get started with Sql Server will not take too much work... to become an expert, well you can spend some time...

    I bought SQL server Developer for $39.  I was planning to use it for testing purposes before full deployment. Is there any relationship between it and MSDE?

    Actually I have never seen this product before. I found it on Amazon but not on Microsoft. I can't say anything about it really. Not very expen$ive

    /rockmoose


    You must unlearn what You have learnt

  • June 22, 2004 at 3:39 pm

    #511523

    thanks very much rock moose!!!!!

    I appreciate your help!

  • June 22, 2004 at 4:14 pm

    #511528

    I had the same problem about 2 years ago. We had a MsAccess database that was used on about 30 desktop (very very slow!!) so I had to transfer that database on Sql Server.

    I had never worked with Sql server before and I have to say that I never had any problem with it (I'm developer and DBA at the same time because I'm the only IT ressource in the company). At the beginning, it pretty much administer itself, so if you don't know much about Sql Server, don't bother. If your db is small, I don't see any problem.

    Erik

  • June 23, 2004 at 8:37 am

    #511626

    Thanks ALOT Erik! that is quite reassuring! It helps me to have a much more optimistic outlook. It is good hearing from people who were where you are and that have succeed thanks!

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