June 30, 2004 at 4:05 pm
My boss wanted to research what it would take to host our own sql server 2000. Basically we will never have more than 20 people connecting to it at time. However, we do plan to put some small apps on the server later to be accessed my users. At best, the server still won't be used very often. Most of the month it will be virtually idle.
I see from Microsoft's web site that the system hardware requirements are minimum. However, that doesn't mean it will really function adequately at those minimum settings.
Do you have any basic ideas? Will a regular desktop computer suffice for such a small project?
Maybe like a 512 MB of Ram?
a GHz or 2 processor?
I want to be reasonable. I'm not trying to go for this but it may come down to it. I'm just researching all our options.
Thanks!
June 30, 2004 at 7:48 pm
It all depends on the load the application will create. If not very much then even the desktop could technically be overkill. But for the basics of what you say you would use Standard Edition ($4000 per cpu license) or better since 25 concurrent users are allowed even MSDE (no charge but there are a few minor conditions). With either you can use up to 2 GB of RAM with SQL max anyway so you might max the ram just because. With MSDE however no database can grow over 2gb (if does they get flakey so always have stop). Also you don't get the nice GUI packge for MSDE (but you could install from the trial version which is funny and use). ALso if your DB gets labor intesive the IO subsystem of the Hard Drive comes into play as IDE is slower than SCSI. So really you have 2 basic choices which fit what you have given so far. Just amounts now to the load you anticipate.
On a final note you might want to play with MSDE first to get an idea of if it will fit your needs. You can always move to Standard later just plan ahead for a need to move before the absolute needs arises.
June 30, 2004 at 11:55 pm
How big are the databases you are planning to put into SQL Server 2000?
How complex are the queries you will be performing in SQL Server?
How quickly do you want SQL Server to respond?
Can you afford to lose all your data?
SQL Server is a memory hog. The more RAM you give it the better, but MSDE and the Standard Edition use a maximum of 2GB. If you are using SQL Server 2000 on Windows 2000 Server better, you will want a minimum of 512MB RAM, and even still this would be slow. Lots of RAM and a fast processor will help SQL Server process complex queries quicker.
SCSI Hard disks with RAID will improve the time it takes SQL Server to read / write data to disk. RAID will help prevent a total failure should one of the hard disks die. You need enough space for all your OS, Databases, Apps, Backups and some room for the future.
I wouldn't recommend running SQL Server on a desktop pc, not if other people are going to connect to it to do work. Desktop pc's are cheeper because they have a higher component failure rate. A Server class pc should come with things like SCSI and RAID default, and everything should last longer.
Julian Kuiters
juliankuiters.id.au
July 1, 2004 at 7:57 am
Thanks guys!
The DB will have 10 to 15 tables at the most if that much. We only have about 200 employees so with in a year we may only have 200 X the number of tables in the DB so about 2000 records. So the DB isn't getting large very quickly at all. I could probably back the DB up at this point with just a Floppy or CD.
I haven't built the schema, but I would assume i will only do a few joins. I would like for it to respond within a reasonable time frame at least as fast as a dial up internet connection.
What do you think?
July 1, 2004 at 8:37 am
Sounds to me like MSDE may suite you just fine and work on the desktop you mentioned. Some may say more is better but if you want to impress do it with least then ask as need arises to uberfy. The only issue would be if more than 25 people need to hit at one time. Otherwise MSDE has the same performance as Standard without the $4000 price tag per cpu.
July 1, 2004 at 4:08 pm
Jacob, you need to talk to users and understand their actions. MSDE has a limit of 6 (not 25, but 6) concurrent batches, then the performance goes down. Batches mean 6 users at the same time click "Submit" button. So Antares686 is correct: if 25 users use the app at the same time, no more then 6 probably will submit the request at the same time. In my experience if application has potential 200 users, it is safe to assume then about 25 - 30 users will have it open at the same time and only a few will really work concurrently. So looks like you may use MSDE unless your application runs long-running queries. I would definitely notify your boss of possible limitations, install MSDE on the desktop as a test server, do a stress test towards your database when you finish with design or just stress-test any similar size database. I agree you should buy a server hardware for Production. Your time, complicated backup strategy and a possible data loss with a desktop are much more expensive then the low-end Dell server.
Regards,Yelena Varsha
July 1, 2004 at 4:33 pm
Read MSDE 2000 product overview here. It was 5 with MSDE 1 (7.0 engine) which I was unaware recently they had changed to 25 in MSDE 2000.
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/overview/default.asp
July 1, 2004 at 8:27 pm
Antares is right. If your database is that small, and does almost nothing for most of the month MSDE should work fine for you.
MSDE is a cut down, free version of SQL Server. It does everything you would need in this case.
MSDE's product link is:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/default.asp
You can download MSDE from :
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/downloads/download.asp
Julian Kuiters
juliankuiters.id.au
July 6, 2004 at 8:39 am
Thanks guys. Buying SQL Server 2000 won't be a big problem because we are a non Profit Org. I will look into MSDE but I wonder if we should limit ourselves to its functionality if we already have SQL Server 2000 available. We actually own it already.
My boss wants to get a server for some seemingly UNNECESSARY reason. I'm just trying to do the research to provide him with the information since we have no clue what it will take.
Eventually i think we will want to load whole apps on the server and allow users to connect and run the programs from a centralized location. We are not there yet.
I do know that there is a difference between SQL Server and a physical server. My point is to see what it will take to get a server to meet our needs. I guess, i will talk to a few local companies to see what they say.
July 6, 2004 at 1:40 pm
Antares, lots of sources still say 5 connections for MSDE. Like ChooseEd.Doc white papers (says same as Personal, Personal says 5)
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinfo/planning/SQLReskChooseEd.asp
and MSDE 2000 Features at
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/productinfo/features.asp
that says:
It has a managed concurrency workload governor that limits up to five concurrent batch workloads for optimal performance.
But I have heard something about 25 too, have to read 2.0 readme. It would be nice of Microsoft to update the basic product documentation.
Regards,Yelena Varsha
July 7, 2004 at 7:18 am
Most of the books I've read says 5 also. I've heard that Access 2000 may accept about 25 simultaneous users.
July 7, 2004 at 6:40 pm
Jacob
If you alread have a license, the most important thing for SQL Server is RAM. Buy as much as you can (up to 2GB), but you should get at least 1GB. SQL Server will keep as much data as it can in memory, to make things quicker.
But it does need to save changes to disk, and read the data from there. So you will want SCSI RAID hard drives to make that really fast and reliable. How much space you need is dependant on how big your database is / grows. We have some servers with only a 20GB database partition. We have others with 400GB database partitions (big $$$). RAID 5 works well for most database systems, but your hardware supplier might suggest a different RAID level for performance reasons.
Then theres the CPU(s). The more the merrier, the faster the better. A Dual Processor machine is a good start, and a Quad Processor is awesome (but might be overkill). SQL Server uses multiple processors to handle Parallel Processing, so a lot more things can be done at once.
Buy a Server class machine, not a Desktop PC. Server class machines have options like 2nd power supplies, more fans, hot swappable diskdrive bays, and are generally built to last longer and survive more than a desktop machine. They're more expensive because the hardware has undergone more testing and development than most desktop pc's.
Julian Kuiters
juliankuiters.id.au
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