August 21, 2017 at 7:56 am
I have often imagined a national ID card that works like this: digitize basic ID info along with a biometric, digitally sign it with the workstation operator key, then by the issuing installation key, then by the federal key, then burn it on a card or subcutaneous chip. Sign the package with the worldwide key and viola, universal ID. If control is lost for any step, revoke the signing ID.
August 21, 2017 at 7:56 am
Sean Redmond - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:35 AMWe have a universal ID — our DNA. I'm not sure that I'd like governments, NGOs or super-government agencies storing it though.
In short, most of what we in the northern hemisphere do passively promotes instability and poverty in the southern hemisphere. A stable, self-confident Africa, a place where her young didn't have to flee would make life in the northern hemisphere considerably more expensive. If we didn't have the problems in the southern hemisphere, there would be no need for this proposal.
I'm having trouble connecting the dots between your comment about using DNA as a form of personal identifier (a hash ID perhaps?) and the following comments regarding the socioeconomic relationship between the northern and southern hemisphere.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
August 21, 2017 at 10:23 am
If the UN wants it, we should fight with all we have to prevent it. This is the organization that is encouraging working people to support non working people, the same organization that has put both Saudi Arabia and Libya in charge of the Human Rights committees, an organization that has been proven to falsify data in order to move their agenda forward, and one that expects US and European citizens to support the rest of the world. Why is it that people are incapable of learning from history?
Dave
August 21, 2017 at 10:29 am
Sean Redmond - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:35 AMWe have a universal ID — our DNA....
There are a few problems with using DNA as an ID.
First off, identical twins have the same DNA.
Second, the human genome is approximately 3.2Gb in size. Limiting to base pairs known to differ between individuals (~0.1% => ~3.2mb) and assuming some excellent lossless compression (say 99.9%) could possibly bring it down to ~3.2kb, which is still unwieldly for a unique ID when a simple incrementing number covering the entire human population (current and historical =~ 107 billion) could fit into 5 bytes.
Limiting further or hashing introduces the possibility of collisions, which I would not want in this data set.
August 21, 2017 at 11:43 pm
Eric M Russell - Monday, August 21, 2017 7:56 AMSean Redmond - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:35 AMWe have a universal ID — our DNA. I'm not sure that I'd like governments, NGOs or super-government agencies storing it though.
In short, most of what we in the northern hemisphere do passively promotes instability and poverty in the southern hemisphere. A stable, self-confident Africa, a place where her young didn't have to flee would make life in the northern hemisphere considerably more expensive. If we didn't have the problems in the southern hemisphere, there would be no need for this proposal.I'm having trouble connecting the dots between your comment about using DNA as a form of personal identifier (a hash ID perhaps?) and the following comments regarding the socioeconomic relationship between the northern and southern hemisphere.
Hi Eric,
Steve commented: The UN wants a universal ID for humanitarian reasons. In case you can't get your personal documents because you're a refugees. They're lost, they're stolen, or just still in the desk drawer because you had to flee your residence. Digital representations of these papers might be the only way for many people to prove anything about their lives. Certainly a concern in today's world.
My point was that if the socio-ecomonic relationship between the northern and southern hemispheres were more proportionate, then there wouldn't such streams of refugees and, as a consequence, the UN wouldn't need to be talking about universal IDs. Which prompted me to think about the use of DNA as ID. When samples are taken from the person in question, it can't be lost, taken away or forged (unless done by the taker of the sample).
I do agree with sknox about the uniqueness problem. How one gets around it, I'm not sure. I haven't studied molecular genetics since the 1990s. There may be a non-genetic marker that can be used to distinguish twins (akin to the uniquifier in non-clustered primary keys). And, as for the size of storing each genome, I think that this is only a matter of time. I'm sure that a company like Google will found a charitable organization to help the U.N. fund all of the DNA readers and offer to store all of the DNA in one of their data-centers.
August 24, 2017 at 10:17 am
I have no doubt that some in the UN want this for the right reasons. However, I also have no doubt that many both inside and outside of the UN would be glad to abuse this. Key paragraph in your article:
As we should know by now, anything that can be built in the digital world can be stolen. In fact, I'm fairly convinced that the vast majority of people that come up with good ideas don't know how to evaluate them in terms of the horrible ways that others will abuse the system. Creators are optimistic and look to solve problems. They're not nearly devious enough to think of the various permutations that a hacker mind might envision.
This could way too easily be used as a way to control people.
August 24, 2017 at 4:42 pm
Sean Redmond - Monday, August 21, 2017 11:43 PMEric M Russell - Monday, August 21, 2017 7:56 AMSean Redmond - Monday, August 21, 2017 12:35 AMWe have a universal ID — our DNA. I'm not sure that I'd like governments, NGOs or super-government agencies storing it though.
In short, most of what we in the northern hemisphere do passively promotes instability and poverty in the southern hemisphere. A stable, self-confident Africa, a place where her young didn't have to flee would make life in the northern hemisphere considerably more expensive. If we didn't have the problems in the southern hemisphere, there would be no need for this proposal.I'm having trouble connecting the dots between your comment about using DNA as a form of personal identifier (a hash ID perhaps?) and the following comments regarding the socioeconomic relationship between the northern and southern hemisphere.
Hi Eric,
Steve commented: The UN wants a universal ID for humanitarian reasons. In case you can't get your personal documents because you're a refugees. They're lost, they're stolen, or just still in the desk drawer because you had to flee your residence. Digital representations of these papers might be the only way for many people to prove anything about their lives. Certainly a concern in today's world.
My point was that if the socio-ecomonic relationship between the northern and southern hemispheres were more proportionate, then there wouldn't such streams of refugees and, as a consequence, the UN wouldn't need to be talking about universal IDs. Which prompted me to think about the use of DNA as ID. When samples are taken from the person in question, it can't be lost, taken away or forged (unless done by the taker of the sample).
I do agree with sknox about the uniqueness problem. How one gets around it, I'm not sure. I haven't studied molecular genetics since the 1990s. There may be a non-genetic marker that can be used to distinguish twins (akin to the uniquifier in non-clustered primary keys). And, as for the size of storing each genome, I think that this is only a matter of time. I'm sure that a company like Google will found a charitable organization to help the U.N. fund all of the DNA readers and offer to store all of the DNA in one of their data-centers.
The theory that streams of refugees are mainly from the Southern hemisphere is geographically inaccurate. Syria, Iran, Libya, and Morocco are the source of rather a lot of refugees, as are Mali, Chad, the Central African Republic, Sudan, Eritrea, and Ethiopia and every one of these countries is in the Northern hemisphere. So deductions based on that theory risk being inccurate too.
Tom
August 24, 2017 at 4:45 pm
Marcia J - Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:17 AMI have no doubt that some in the UN want this for the right reasons. However, I also have no doubt that many both inside and outside of the UN would be glad to abuse this. Key paragraph in your article:As we should know by now, anything that can be built in the digital world can be stolen. In fact, I'm fairly convinced that the vast majority of people that come up with good ideas don't know how to evaluate them in terms of the horrible ways that others will abuse the system. Creators are optimistic and look to solve problems. They're not nearly devious enough to think of the various permutations that a hacker mind might envision.
This could way too easily be used as a way to control people.
This seems to me to be pretty accurate, but I'm less optimistic than Marcia so I would be inclined to say "would" inestead of "could" in the final sentence.
Tom
August 27, 2017 at 11:18 pm
TomThomson - Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:42 PM[/b]
Bah! humbug! You are correct and I was being lazy with my descriptors. I submit 'Resource-rich southern sides of the Mackinder's World Island' as a replacement for my southern hemisphere.
August 28, 2017 at 6:22 pm
Sean Redmond - Sunday, August 27, 2017 11:18 PMTomThomson wrote:TomThomson - Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:42 PM[/b]
The theory that streams of refugees are mainly from the Southern hemisphere is geographically inaccurate. Syria, Iran, Libya, and Morocco are the source of rather a lot of refugees, as are Mali, Chad, the Central African Republic, Sudan, Eritrea, and Ethiopia and every one of these countries is in the Northern hemisphere. So deductions based on that theory risk being inccurate too.
Bah! humbug! You are correct and I was being lazy with my descriptors. I submit 'Resource-rich southern sides of the Mackinder's World Island' as a replacement for my southern hemisphere.
Drat! I see an uncorrect typo in what you quoted. I must improve my typing somehow. I seem to have typed "n" once when I intended to type "q". That demonstrates that not all typos are fingerslip since that one was clearly brain-slip; "n" and "q" are nowhere near each other on the Scottish Gaelic keyboard layout I use on my laptop (they have the same positions as on a US English keyboard).
I don't much like the idea of Mackinder's World Island in this context though; it suggest that no consideration of teh Americas, Australia, or Madagascar is needed.
Tom
August 28, 2017 at 11:09 pm
TomThomson - Monday, August 28, 2017 6:22 PMI don't much like the idea of Mackinder's World Island in this context though; it suggest that no consideration of teh Americas, Australia, or Madagascar is needed.
To be honest, I've read very little recently about refugee streams within, to or from the Americas or Australia, hence I didn't comment upon it. There used to be refugee streams from the Caribbean into the States.
And large though it is, isn't Madagascar to Eastern Africa what Japan is to East Asia, the U.K. & Ireland are to Europe — the outer reaches of its part of the continent?
A Scots-Irish keyboard will make it easier to type fadas (á et al.). I've had to learn the ASCII numbers.
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