October 25, 2016 at 6:49 am
Sorry this might be me ranting abit, but am prepared for someone to tell me I am being unreasonable hehe.
So I work within a BI team doing the technical stuff for our servers from a SQL perspective. Our business decided they didn't need SQL DBA team I was in so I was part of a general IT helpdesk team for a while. It was hard, I had several clashes over machine specs because speccing up an SQL machine is sometimes the next level and there are many unknowns (growth being one of them).
So I have spec'd up our new BI server as it has to move. I gave them the space requirements based on our current set up, MCR and also how much I believe we will grow. Space is not so much of an issue this time as it's going to be virtualised so space can be added where needed (current set up is physical).
However, I have now been told there is only half the space for us for the new prod (yes I said prod) server, and we can have more space once we have moved over to it (from the old prod server once it is old and the new one is working).
However, in my mind unless we move over everything we can't test it properly and I am being asked to cherry pick the important stuff. Even if I take off the backups we could to start with do without it is still 500GB over the minimum they want us to run with.
I am usually quite amiable but I am abit vexed and want to stamp my foot (no tantrums more, hey no we need this space).
Has anyone else come across this? I am starting to want to be a proper DBA again, forgotten how exciting these type of discussions are!
October 25, 2016 at 7:19 am
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
Sorry this might be me ranting abit, but am prepared for someone to tell me I am being unreasonable hehe.So I work within a BI team doing the technical stuff for our servers from a SQL perspective. Our business decided they didn't need SQL DBA team I was in so I was part of a general IT helpdesk team for a while. It was hard, I had several clashes over machine specs because speccing up an SQL machine is sometimes the next level and there are many unknowns (growth being one of them).
So I have spec'd up our new BI server as it has to move. I gave them the space requirements based on our current set up, MCR and also how much I believe we will grow. Space is not so much of an issue this time as it's going to be virtualised so space can be added where needed (current set up is physical).
However, I have now been told there is only half the space for us for the new prod (yes I said prod) server, and we can have more space once we have moved over to it (from the old prod server once it is old and the new one is working).
However, in my mind unless we move over everything we can't test it properly and I am being asked to cherry pick the important stuff. Even if I take off the backups we could to start with do without it is still 500GB over the minimum they want us to run with.
I am usually quite amiable but I am abit vexed and want to stamp my foot (no tantrums more, hey no we need this space).
Has anyone else come across this? I am starting to want to be a proper DBA again, forgotten how exciting these type of discussions are!
The bottom line is that if you need the space, you need the space. Without having the space required, you can't test all parts of the migration. Do the SAN administrators expect you to write a migration and not test it?
I have to ask what you mean by "Even if I take off the backups" above. Remember that the first duty of any DBA is to protect the data. If you run without backups for any period of time, you're going to need one. Also, running without regular backups tends to bloat the log files, making your space problem worse.
Let's say for a moment that you get your data volume space and get the job done, running without scheduled backups. The backups are not setup in a database job and production is running on the new server. By the sounds of it, you're going to have a hard time getting backup volume space allocated. We know what happens next - you're going to need a backup and you won't have one. You have to ask if you want to put the company and yourself in that situation.
October 25, 2016 at 7:40 am
Ed, completely agree. My email to them has said I am not prepared to take off backups, and my worry is we won't have that space put in for them. It was their suggestion, most definitely not mine and I have stood my ground.
Feels odd to put my DBA head on again, it's been a while for these kind of things and I have second guessed myself a couple of times. Not any more!
October 25, 2016 at 7:49 am
This is why corporations hire their own staff lawyers and scientists; they don't want to know how best to do things; they just want to know how close to the edge they can operate without (probably) falling over.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 25, 2016 at 8:11 am
Now they want to offer me RAID5 instead of RAID10 *weep*.
Eric, I think you could be right here I am a belt and braces person and I don't overspec but I make 100% sure that we have the room to do what we have to do and then some.
October 25, 2016 at 8:33 am
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
Now they want to offer me RAID5 instead of RAID10 *weep*.Eric, I think you could be right here I am a belt and braces person and I don't overspec but I make 100% sure that we have the room to do what we have to do and then some.
I'd say you should spec out three different server configuration options, include the risks and benefits of each, and note which option you highly recommend. Then email a copy to all the stakeholders and project managers for them to review. If you spell out the options and your concerns in black and white, making it clear you're trying to CYA, then it might influence their decision in the right direction, even if it doesn't gain you any popularity.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
October 25, 2016 at 8:36 am
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
Now they want to offer me RAID5 instead of RAID10 *weep*.Eric, I think you could be right here I am a belt and braces person and I don't overspec but I make 100% sure that we have the room to do what we have to do and then some.
This happens, especially if they are sourcing your disks from a SAN environment. SAN admins tend to like to make huge RAID groups and then carve out the LUNs from that, so even if they give you separate drive letters on your VM, they may be sourced from the same set of physical disks. They probably don't have anything in the SAN setup in RAID10, and probably don't understand the reasoning someone would want it. To them, you get speed by putting more disks in the same RAID.
October 25, 2016 at 10:07 am
Eric M Russell (10/25/2016)
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
Now they want to offer me RAID5 instead of RAID10 *weep*.Eric, I think you could be right here I am a belt and braces person and I don't overspec but I make 100% sure that we have the room to do what we have to do and then some.
I'd say you should spec out three different server configuration options, include the risks and benefits of each, and note which option you highly recommend. Then email a copy to all the stakeholders and project managers for them to review. If you spell out the options and your concerns in black and white, making it clear you're trying to CYA, then it might influence their decision in the right direction, even if it doesn't gain you any popularity.
Would it surprise you to know that I did this? I pointed out everything from cost of licences to performance to redundancy. I don't think I am all that popluar with the IT Team at the mo sadly, but if anything goes wrong it's on their heads.
October 25, 2016 at 10:59 am
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
Eric M Russell (10/25/2016)
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
Now they want to offer me RAID5 instead of RAID10 *weep*.Eric, I think you could be right here I am a belt and braces person and I don't overspec but I make 100% sure that we have the room to do what we have to do and then some.
I'd say you should spec out three different server configuration options, include the risks and benefits of each, and note which option you highly recommend. Then email a copy to all the stakeholders and project managers for them to review. If you spell out the options and your concerns in black and white, making it clear you're trying to CYA, then it might influence their decision in the right direction, even if it doesn't gain you any popularity.
Would it surprise you to know that I did this? I pointed out everything from cost of licences to performance to redundancy. I don't think I am all that popluar with the IT Team at the mo sadly, but if anything goes wrong it's on their heads.
It doesn't surprise me. Well done. You may not be popular, but people can tolerate a lot if you're effective. Saving people from themselves is a part of a DBA's job description. You won't find it stated anywhere; it's subtext. 😉
October 26, 2016 at 4:26 pm
I am being asked to cherry pick the important stuff.
Depending on who you ask, if you go around the company eventually you might find most all of it to be important.
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October 26, 2016 at 4:49 pm
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
My email to them has said I am not prepared to take off backups, and my worry is we won't have that space put in for them.
Ok... no pun intended but let's backup a bit. Are you saying that your most recent backups are on the same disk system as the MDF/LDF files for the databases they back up? That's a form of career suicide in the extreme.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 27, 2016 at 4:43 am
Jeff Moden (10/26/2016)
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
My email to them has said I am not prepared to take off backups, and my worry is we won't have that space put in for them.Ok... no pun intended but let's backup a bit. Are you saying that your most recent backups are on the same disk system as the MDF/LDF files for the databases they back up? That's a form of career suicide in the extreme.
Heh - Leave it to you, Jeff, to notice things others miss. Nice catch.
October 27, 2016 at 8:17 am
Ed Wagner (10/27/2016)
Jeff Moden (10/26/2016)
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
My email to them has said I am not prepared to take off backups, and my worry is we won't have that space put in for them.Ok... no pun intended but let's backup a bit. Are you saying that your most recent backups are on the same disk system as the MDF/LDF files for the databases they back up? That's a form of career suicide in the extreme.
Heh - Leave it to you, Jeff, to notice things others miss. Nice catch.
Let's hope the OP doesn't just ignore that "catch". It's one of the most dangerous things that can be done with backups.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 28, 2016 at 3:43 am
Jeff Moden (10/27/2016)
Ed Wagner (10/27/2016)
Jeff Moden (10/26/2016)
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
My email to them has said I am not prepared to take off backups, and my worry is we won't have that space put in for them.Ok... no pun intended but let's backup a bit. Are you saying that your most recent backups are on the same disk system as the MDF/LDF files for the databases they back up? That's a form of career suicide in the extreme.
Heh - Leave it to you, Jeff, to notice things others miss. Nice catch.
Let's hope the OP doesn't just ignore that "catch". It's one of the most dangerous things that can be done with backups.
Oh hell no, they are on a separate disk (wondering what I said now?). First rule I learnt when I started with DBs you are right that WOULD be career suicide. I have also done a plan for the new server for this too.
I am digging my heels in and refusing to even START installing anything unless I have the necessary space. Thanks all for letting me rant, it was appreciated :).
October 28, 2016 at 8:02 am
Kazmerelda (10/28/2016)
Jeff Moden (10/27/2016)
Ed Wagner (10/27/2016)
Jeff Moden (10/26/2016)
Kazmerelda (10/25/2016)
My email to them has said I am not prepared to take off backups, and my worry is we won't have that space put in for them.Ok... no pun intended but let's backup a bit. Are you saying that your most recent backups are on the same disk system as the MDF/LDF files for the databases they back up? That's a form of career suicide in the extreme.
Heh - Leave it to you, Jeff, to notice things others miss. Nice catch.
Let's hope the OP doesn't just ignore that "catch". It's one of the most dangerous things that can be done with backups.
Oh hell no, they are on a separate disk (wondering what I said now?). First rule I learnt when I started with DBs you are right that WOULD be career suicide. I have also done a plan for the new server for this too.
I am digging my heels in and refusing to even START installing anything unless I have the necessary space. Thanks all for letting me rant, it was appreciated :).
Cool. What I quoted above is what made it sound like you had made the career mistake. I had to make sure.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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