August 6, 2012 at 8:33 pm
Hello All!
I currently am a plumber by trade, been in that industry courtesy of my father in law since graduating high school. I am really just wore out on the trade and state of the industry in our area. I had my own company for 8+ years and did pretty decent for many years. Im still relatively young at 34, but at any rate all that is history! I have been looking at making a big career change. So....
I have been studying and working through the book series Joes 2 Pros over the last month and a half or so and I am getting close to being proficient enough to test for my 70-433 exam. I have worked through the labs and all using my Developer edition so I do have VERY little hands on experience.
I have recently been looking on many of the Job sites with keywords SQL developer or Sql DBA. Everything in the areas I am interested in working in (Texas or Minnesota) require experience of at least 3 years. I have been applying anyway but of course not having much luck landing interviews.
Does anyone have any kind of advice they could offer? I am very confident in my ability to contribute in meaningful ways. I know I will not be the best guy on any given team in the near future. But, I know I will be one of the biggest sponges in the place. I am a quick learner and I am very driven to suceed.
succeedrently live in Texas and really desire to relocate my family to Minnesota. I am considering a trip to MN to try and introduce myself and hand deliver a copy of my resume and cover letter to many of the shops around. For those in the industry do you think this could be a good thing and give me a foot in a door? Or would it make me the creepy overly persisitant guy? I just know I am going to have to make myself stand out in some way, and that was one idea I had.
Any help anyone could give would be GREATLY appreciated. 😀
--Andy
August 7, 2012 at 12:16 am
First, being a DBA and a SQL developer is an excellent experience on bothaccounts. This is also a great time as there is a HUGE shortage of DBAs and Database developers (DBAs more so)
I'll tell you how I became a DBA and give you a few tips.
Becoming a DBA
Before I was a DBA I spent about 4 years as a level 1,2, then lead tech support guy working on a SQL based application. Thats how I got exposure to SQL Development and basic DBA tasks (moves, backups, SQL setups, upgrades, etc). I was in college and, when I graduated I did not know what I wanted to do. I ended up doing AD, Exchange, Server administration and alike for a few years.
(no, you don't need to do all this to become a DBA)
Later I spent a couple years as a (though it was not my title) an XML/XSLT developer working on another SQL based product. I began looking for SQL jobs (I would search for "SQL" under job title.) I got some interviews and landed the job. My last DBA job title was 2nd VP of DB Engineering at a Fortune something co. Now I do BI development and am an aspiring Data Scientist.
Conventional wisdom would dictate that people don't go directly from plumber to DBA. I mentioned how I did it to give you an idea of how someone gets there. You will have a good idea of what you need to know after your first interview. If you know from the get-go DBA is what you want then here's how to get there the fastest:
Study, study, study... Paractice, practice, practice...
You don't have to spend a dime at first, really. Books online, Microsoft free Elearning, forums, etc. You can download the SQL Server free version and go to town. Dig around, back up a DB, try to build a cube, whatever: This, too, will help you know how much you like it. If you love it, then study and practice your butt off; the more time you spend doing that the less time you have to wait to get that gig.
If you end up first getting a lower level SQL job then volunteer for everything that will help you learn. If you do that you may become an "Accidental DBA"
Read everything on SSC and other forumns, blogs, etc.
My personal tip: learn XML too! Many people will disagree with that but knowing XML has helped me with being a DBA, SQL Developer and BI guy in many ways and has been a huge advantage.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
August 7, 2012 at 10:19 am
Getting certifiied may help but from someone who read the Joe's to Pro's series, don't use it exclusively. They cover a lot and the cost of the books are cheap but you'll need a lot more to pass the 70-433. XML was one topic that was high level and the questions I saw on my exam were WAY above the content in those books.
Stay on these forums, read blogs from other prominent MS MVP's or dedicated SQL people and join local user groups that focus on SQL. Most user groups offer regular seminars for little or nothing and it's a great way to learn and network.
Also, have your resume reviewed by a pro. With the amount of time I hear HR people spend on resumes, you only get a few seconds and need to make it count.
Good luck!
Mark
August 7, 2012 at 7:19 pm
Ayeager78 (8/6/2012)
I am very confident in my ability to contribute in meaningful ways. I know I will not be the best guy on any given team in the near future. But, I know I will be one of the biggest sponges in the place. I am a quick learner and I am very driven to succeed.
Gosh... That DOES make it sound like you're driven. I believe I'd start out by putting that in a cover letter. Also, contact some recruiters and explain your current positition. IMHO, they're typically the best source for people just starting out.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 7, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Thanks for the Info Ya'll. I appreciate your input. I especially like hearing about the books I have been using from someone who has read them.
I plan on doing a "practice" exam on Measure-Up.com before signing up for the test so I know a little of what to expect anyway.
Thanks Again, and keep ideas coming please! I know I need all the help I can get!
--Andy
August 7, 2012 at 7:51 pm
Go to sqlpass.org and do a search for user groups in your area. You could make some good contacts there.
August 7, 2012 at 8:26 pm
It's like we're twins or taking the same path to certification!
Skip measure up. Like the J2P book series, it's not very accurate. Personally, I focused way too much on the study material in those books and the test exam and my exam hardly resembled either.
I'm set to take my exam around the middle of August and this time I'll walk in knowing what to expect from the test and will be armed with better overall knowledge.
Mark
August 9, 2012 at 4:01 pm
When you are interviewing, be prepared to articulate precisely why you chose this specific career path. People who succeed over the long haul are the ones that do things for the right reasons. Motivation (desire) is the basis for everything.
August 9, 2012 at 9:57 pm
jshahan (8/9/2012)
When you are interviewing, be prepared to articulate precisely why you chose this specific career path. People who succeed over the long haul are the ones that do things for the right reasons. Motivation (desire) is the basis for everything.
Whatever you do, don't say you're doing it for the money. It makes you a future "flight risk".
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
August 12, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Lynn Pettis (8/7/2012)
Go to sqlpass.org and do a search for user groups in your area. You could make some good contacts there.
Now Registered for a SQL Saturday in Minnesota Sept 29th. Not Local to where I am now but it is my homestate and the place I desire to live. I will definately be checking out local user Groups. Thanks for that Advice.
jshahan (8/9/2012)
When you are interviewing, be prepared to articulate precisely why you chose this specific career path. People who succeed over the long haul are the ones that do things for the right reasons. Motivation (desire) is the basis for everything.
Thanks Great Advice!
Jeff Moden (8/10/2012)
Whatever you do, don't say you're doing it for the money. It makes you a future "flight risk".
Well, it definatley is not just the money. Though providing better for my family is certianly a desire. Really I just don't feel like I am using the intelligence God gave me in near enough capacity. Looking for more of a challenge and I love seeing code actually work and knowing I had a part in it.
Thanks Agian you all! Hopefully I will find someone willing to take a chance on an unexperienced guy. I do know I fight the stereotype of your typical plumber. But most assuredly I am not your typical Plumber.
**Ha! Edited becuase my code did not work! Will I have success this time?**
**Third Time is a Charm. Why will typing in my own ' [ ' and ' ] ' not work? Just Curious.....
--Andy
August 16, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Hi, one thing I would recommend is adding Data Analyst to the list of job search items. My last job was as a Data Analyst and I worked a lot in SQL.
August 20, 2012 at 10:19 am
I made a fairly radical career change at age 38, so I've been where you are now, OP. I knew I was seeking some kind of IT employment, but I more or less stumbled into database development. I have several suggestions for you based on my experience.
1. Think of every little single bit of computer and database experience you've had, going back as far into your educational and work history as necessary. Find ways to play this experience up on your resume and be prepared to talk about it with contacts you make in your job search. You mentioned that you ran your own business. Did you use any computerized systems - work order management, bookkeeping, scheduling, etc.? Were you responsible for installing and maintaining those systems? Even if they were installed on a single PC, installing, configuring, and administering those systems successfully shows recruiters and interviewers that you have better-than-average aptitude for general IT tasks. Likewise, any classes or seminars you've taken in any IT discipline provide an opportunity for you to demonstrate some knowledge in general IT subjects.
2. Be prepared to explain why you are changing careers and why you chose database administration or development - that will probably be the very first question any recruiter or interview asks you. Frame this explanation in positive terms as much as possible, and condense it into a couple sentences that you can reel off almost automatically. For example, you might say, "I became a plumber because I had an excellent opportunity to enter that trade right out of high school. I have been successful at it for several years, but now find that I have career interests outside that field. After careful consideration, I have decided that a career in database administration or development would offer me the challenge and chance to apply my skills and abilities that plumbing does not offer." That gives you a natural segue into talking about your skills and abilities, so be ready to follow up with that conversation.
3. Find some opportunity to get some hands-on contact with a "real" database so you have something concrete to talk about when asked about your experience (or apparent lack thereof). I put "real" in quotations marks because it may be that the only chance you get at this will be one you create yourself. Since you have access to the Developer edition of SQL Server, come up with some possible use of a database and build the thing from scratch. For example, you might build a database that tracks inventory of plumbing parts. This sounds simple, but is actually a very complex task. In fact, writing the database code to generate a bill of materials for a particular job is a common challenge faced by database developers. Set up the SQL Server instance that hosts this database with a real-world configuration, including security measures. Even if your database is not used in a real-world setting, you have some tangible body of work to discuss with recruiters or interviewers.
4. When you do get an interview, be prepared to do some actual T-SQL coding. Many big recruiting firms require candidates to take an assessment test of some sort before they will send you on interviews with their clients, and many employers require interviewees to write a least a few lines of code to be sure that person actually knows what he/she is doing.
I can say that my new career has been more satisfying and rewarding that I ever imagined. It is a great to wake up each work day (well, at least MOST work days) looking forward to the job. I wish you good luck in your change!
Jason Wolfkill
August 22, 2012 at 2:11 pm
Ayeager78, it was not too many years ago I was in a manhole all day splicing phone cable for Ma Bell. While I did not change companys at first, I got a job in management where I quickly found out there were such things as SQL, Access, Excel, etc. I became an "accidental" SQL programmer/database developer before I knew how to spell "SQL". Needless to say, it was a steep learning curve, but I eventually got my head above water. The absolute best way for me to learn was to try to answer questions here on SSC. Although I was, and still am, only interested in TSQL, you might try to help others with questions relavent to your aspirations. After all, they are real folks doing the kinds of things you will be doing, so it will help give you exposure to things you may not encounter in the books, and some hands on experience using your set up (I'm assuming you have a database set up on a personal PC somewhere). Anyhow, good luck to you from one Joe to another!
Greg
Greg
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
The glass is at one half capacity: nothing more, nothing less.
September 16, 2012 at 8:06 am
Thanks everyone!
It's like we're twins or taking the same path to certification!
Skip measure up. Like the J2P book series, it's not very accurate. Personally, I focused way too much on the study material in those books and the test exam and my exam hardly resembled either.
I'm set to take my exam around the middle of August and this time I'll walk in knowing what to expect from the test and will be armed with better overall knowledge.
Mark
Mark, Thanks for the input. With your help I finished the books, skipped MeasureUp and tried UCertify instead. Yesterday I made an attempt at the certification exam, not super confident but thinking i was possibly ready.
WOW! There is a difference. I did not do very well but I am thankful for the things I did know from the study I did. I would have been extremely lost without any of it. I learned a lot from both sources and still have another 3rd or so to find. 🙂 I am also thankful for the fact that I now an idea of what to expect next time. There was definatley syntax and stuff on the actual exam that I had not even gotten a glimpse of in the last many months.
How did you do on your exam? Wishing you well!
Thanks everyone for the advice I have used all of it in one way or another. Super excited for the SQL saturday #149 in Minnesota, in a couple weeks. Though I do wish I was going saying I just earned my certification. I just dont think it is feasible that I am ready to retest that quick. 🙁
--Andy
September 16, 2012 at 9:20 am
Andy,
Due to a major project at work, most of my own time has been working from home and I haven't had time to take the exam. But the project is due on 10/1, so I will probably take it mid-October.
Mark
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