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Do it. Try it. Fix it.

  • February 3, 2021 at 7:06 am

    This was removed by the editor as SPAM

  • February 4, 2021 at 12:00 am

    #3836035

    Comments posted to this topic are about the item Do it. Try it. Fix it.

  • February 4, 2021 at 7:30 am

    #3840798

    Does not sound right.

    Let's try to match it to a normal dev project plan:

    Do it - development

    Try it - testing

    Fix it - ??? Deployment is not fixing. Fixing is redevelopment, or refactoring.

    Did you ever see a project plan with "refactoring" after "testing"? With time and resources allocated to it?

    "Fix it" always goes to "some time later" pile.

    The real DevOps / Agile saying should sound like this:

    Do it. Try it. Get used to it.

     

     

    _____________
    Code for TallyGenerator

  • February 4, 2021 at 12:10 pm

    #3840908

    It seems like a paraphrase of the Deming Cycle of Plan, Do, Check (or study) and Review but they don't seem to fit.  Master Yoda (Star Wars) says 'Do or do not, there is no try'.  My interpretation is to try something is to do something without being sure of the outcome, so in Waltons "Do it. Try it. Fix it" case both Do and Try are the same.  Unless I've missed something?

    In the original article Steve mentions not repeating that type of mistake - the Check and Review part of the Deming cycle. Deming was an engineer and the process still lends itself to software engineering particularly DevOps.  Maybe we should all take note and learn from the giants whose shoulders we stand upon.

  • February 4, 2021 at 1:48 pm

    #3840965

    Sergiy wrote:

    Do it. Try it. Get used to it.

    Now that's a keeper.  You've just described the outcome of most software I've ever seen but it's missing a very important point... "Repeat as the wind blows".

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • February 4, 2021 at 3:10 pm

    #3841005

    Thank you, Steve, for this article. This is a good admonition for me. I don't think I am particularly good at convincing others that a certain practice should be followed, rather than ignored. What are effective ways of winsomely introducing a different concept to one's colleagues?

    Rod

  • February 4, 2021 at 6:00 pm

    #3841084

    This is similar to the OODA loop the military uses, as well as Deming.

    Saying get used to it is how many companies and organizations have operated, but that is changing. As management realizes that living with too many faults is an issue, some orgs implement corrections and refactorings. Tech or otherwise. Those that don't are seeing competition outperform them, and the lesson is getting learned, albeit slowly.

    Having a constant lack of faith that things can improve, doesn't seem to be helpful for me.

    Rod, in terms of introducing change, often you need to show something. What I aim to do is show a small change, maybe I take a little extra time and show two ways of doing things, along with the metrics of how they perform, or how they deploy, or something that shows an improvement. That helps me to prove to myself that a different way is actually better. I need to also show that a new thing doesn't require a lot more effort. Templates, snippets, some way of making a pattern change easy is what helps further adoption.

     

  • February 5, 2021 at 12:28 am

    #3841231

    Thanks, Steve.

    Rod

  • February 5, 2021 at 1:12 pm

    #3841500

    Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:

    Having a constant lack of faith that things can improve, doesn't seem to be helpful for me.

    No doubt - things can improve.

    But - they don’t.

    Because those who do won’t admit they do bad.

    And you, Steve, continuously criticise me for a negative look on quality of what’s done.

    But - if everyone is happy about some product - there simply no case for improvement.

    You know how they start every speech on AA groups?

    ”I’m Bonnie Plunket. I’m an alcoholic”.

    It’s a must. You must admit you have a problem, before you can get help.

    Same here. Want things get better - show where they are bad, and what’s the reason they are bad.

    _____________
    Code for TallyGenerator

  • February 5, 2021 at 1:30 pm

    #3841506

    Having a constant lack of faith that things can improve, doesn't seem to be helpful for me.

    Actually it can be pretty helpful in dealing with things that we think have little chance of improving. He knows what he's talking about LOL heck its been a healthy adjustment that I've made also.

  • February 5, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    #3841622

    Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:

    Having a constant lack of faith that things can improve, doesn't seem to be helpful for me.

    I would normally agree but the industry has a huge track record of supposed "improvements" not actually being improvements in any way, shape, or form or, worse yet, for the wrong reasons.  It seems that the industry has adopted the attitude that "We have to make a change to justify our existence... even if it's wrong".

    I'm all for improvements... but only if they actually are improvements... and they're, more often than not, not actual improvements.

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • February 5, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    #3841633

    the industry also has a track record of many improvements that are improvements. Hence my post. It's easy to be too negative or positive. I am striving for a balance and also aiming to do and promote people to do better.

  • February 5, 2021 at 11:49 pm

    #3841744

    It's a real shame that a lot of people writing software and user interfaces don't seem concerned with that balance.  And I have to disagree with you... the industry has had some high spots but their normal track record is pretty bad.  The balance there requires you to move the fulcrum quite close to one end.

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

  • February 6, 2021 at 3:20 am

    #3841792

    Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:

    the industry also has a track record of many improvements that are improvements. Hence my post. It's easy to be too negative or positive. I am striving for a balance and also aiming to do and promote people to do better.

    Steven, can you remind me a single software product which can survive ,say, 2 month without a fault "behind the firewall" - meaning with no dev team having access to the production site and no new deployments allowed?

     

    _____________
    Code for TallyGenerator

  • February 6, 2021 at 4:37 am

    #3841806

    Steve Jones - SSC Editor wrote:

    the industry also has a track record of many improvements that are improvements. Hence my post. It's easy to be too negative or positive. I am striving for a balance and also aiming to do and promote people to do better.

    You have to trust me on this...  I'm not for being too negative on this subject.  I'm negative because of the number of times that I've been burned by people "aiming to do" and seriously missing or heaping reduced functionality on us or coming out with not-fully-complete features or features that break performance or removing useful features on us.

    And you folks still haven't fixed all the broken SSC links on the old articles during the last "improvement" to this site. 🙁

    This stuff is really getting old.

    --Jeff Moden

    RBAR is pronounced "ree-bar" and is a "Modenism" for Row-By-Agonizing-Row.
    First step towards the paradigm shift of writing Set Based code:
    ________Stop thinking about what you want to do to a ROW... think, instead, of what you want to do to a COLUMN.

    Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.

    Helpful Links:
    How to post code problems
    How to Post Performance Problems
    Create a Tally Function (fnTally)

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