September 9, 2018 at 8:15 am
Recently I've had this one user (call her ''User 1') who was maxing out CPU on a multi-tenanted box, and when confronted she actually admitted, "I don't know what the code does". In writing. I intend to ask her what she was doing running that code.
Worse, 'User 2' , an "admin" (a term I use loosely for this particular woman, who frankly has no business IMO being in IT) for a very well known and widely used app for sharing documentation within organisations, almost filled a disk with her logs, 150gb vs a 3gb datafile. An exchange of emails between us ensued, and whenever I sent an email asking for explanation as how she allowed this to happen, she would came up to my desk repeatedly (typically a sign someone doesn't want to publish a reviewable record of his incompetence), and I'd send her packing with, "Could you reply to my email?" And out of the corner of my eye, I'd see her frantically Googling "SQL Server Log File" etc. Until I get a reassuringly technical analysis of how this happened and a clear roadmap detailing how she intends to avoid it, her logfile has a cap on it and that cap isn't coming off until she comes up with one.
I actually have some respect for the former, I don't know her experience (or lack thereof), and while it's not a good thing to be running code you don't understand, she didn't try to cover up, she came clean. I respect that. So the jury is out and may stay out forever, so long as there's no recurrence.. But the latter imo had NO business holding herself out as an Admin. Yes I'm aware of course logs bloat, there's a lot of crappy code and a lot of crappy application owners.
At a minimum, I want an explanation from her , and hopefully have her retrained, and if not, restrained. I could shrug my shoulders and be 'that' DBA in the 'Don't Be That DBA' meme who doesn't give a damn. Not me !!
September 10, 2018 at 5:49 am
Education.
Help them out by teaching them the right things to do. It's the only way unless you lock them out, which may or may not be possible depending on your situation. Hold a lunch & learn for the team. Suggest a SQLSaturday event or a local user group or meetup or something. Lifting people up is harder work than locking them off, but it pays off a lot more.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
September 10, 2018 at 7:22 am
I agree with Grant. Education is important, but when users are causing issues, I also do let my manager know. Not to complain, but to document that I'm trying to solve a problem here and the user has to participate. Often we (manager and I) don't have any recourse or control, but if complaints escalate or performance impacts others, there should be a document of what's going on.
If user 1 is causing issues for others, that's a problem. Not documenting this will likely cause your work / department to look bad. Better to note that you've explained an issue and offered potential solutions. Even if this box is only for user 1, they may ask for an upgrade later, or you may be questioned about why not a downgrade. Just document the issue.
For user 2, discussing this outside of email is fine, but you ought to ensure someone else is aware since you have log caps and you never know what complaints they'll lodge.
September 10, 2018 at 8:19 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor - Monday, September 10, 2018 7:22 AMI agree with Grant. Education is important, but when users are causing issues, I also do let my manager know. Not to complain, but to document that I'm trying to solve a problem here and the user has to participate. Often we (manager and I) don't have any recourse or control, but if complaints escalate or performance impacts others, there should be a document of what's going on.If user 1 is causing issues for others, that's a problem. Not documenting this will likely cause your work / department to look bad. Better to note that you've explained an issue and offered potential solutions. Even if this box is only for user 1, they may ask for an upgrade later, or you may be questioned about why not a downgrade. Just document the issue.
For user 2, discussing this outside of email is fine, but you ought to ensure someone else is aware since you have log caps and you never know what complaints they'll lodge.
I agree with all of this. Teach them and stop trying to get them to document their incompetence in T-SQL in an email. You wouldn't like it if someone did it to you.
From what you said in your post, I can see how the users may be taking your actions as a challenge and potential threat to their jobs. It's going to take you some time but get with them shoulder-to-shoulder, figure out what they actually need to do (they ARE actually trying to do their jobs), and ENABLE them by teaching them both why their code needs help and then what and how they can do something about it.
Remember that one of the primary tasks for a DBA is to make data/information available. Sometimes you have to play the part of a mentor in a sensitive manner rather than just being the gatekeeper. 😉
If they refuse the training, that's another story. There may be three things wrong there... 1) you may have already intimidated or insulted them enough where they don't actually ever want to get within walking distance of you ever again, never mind listen to you or 2) they're afraid because they think they can't because they're not actually people that know how to code or 3) they have a "not my job" attitude and they may be correct... you may have to write the code for them and then show them how to use it.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
September 10, 2018 at 11:15 am
Not to be the fly in the ointment, but what else were you expecting? putting end-users in SSMS or with a wide-open query tool is going to create some bad code.
Unless this is a sandbox, where you would *expect* bad behaving queries, etc..., there isn't a lot of great reasons why you would give this type of access to an end-user (frankly trained or otherwise).
Sure educate them as need be, but frankly I would also accelerate finding a way to NOT have them on an environment that "matters" when they are running this type of code.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
September 10, 2018 at 1:12 pm
Jeff Moden - Monday, September 10, 2018 8:19 AMI agree with all of this. Teach them and stop trying to get them to document their incompetence in T-SQL in an email. You wouldn't like it if someone did it to you.
From what you said in your post, I can see how the users may be taking your actions as a challenge and potential threat to their jobs. It's going to take you some time but get with them shoulder-to-shoulder, figure out what they actually need to do (they ARE actually trying to do their jobs), and ENABLE them by teaching them both why their code needs help and then what and how they can do something about it.
Remember that one of the primary tasks for a DBA is to make data/information available. Sometimes you have to play the part of a mentor in a sensitive manner rather than just being the gatekeeper. 😉
If they refuse the training, that's another story. There may be three things wrong there... 1) you may have already intimidated or insulted them enough where they don't actually ever want to get within walking distance of you ever again, never mind listen to you or 2) they're afraid because they think they can't because they're not actually people that know how to code or 3) they have a "not my job" attitude and they may be correct... you may have to write the code for them and then show them how to use it.
I'm highlighting incompetence that's harming my organisation, and MY actions are being questioned??!?!? By MY peers?? Where I'd thought I'd most likely get some tea and sympathy, which I'm sure User 2 is getting by the shoulder-towel at whatever website she uses (probably http://www.EngagementIsRetirement.com)
The most galling aspect of this whole thing is that these users are allowed to wreak merry hell on the servers on which everyone expects MY DB's to be 100% up, lightning fast, get access to reports within 10 frickken seconds of opening a ticket. Yes, that's probably why I'm paid almost as much as those two users combined, shhhh, but you know, where's THEIR accountability?
No, I haven't insulted them. I'm a professional, I don't name-call, and yes, I know that's not what you meant. You meant if they feel insulted. If they do, that's their oversensitivity. If they're feeling intimidated, if they're that fragile, even if they're earning minimum wage but still can't adhere to a minimum of good practise, then quite frankly they need to resign.
No, I don't want User 1 to lose her job, User 2 I wouldn't shed a tear if she did BUT I'd far, far rather she were retrained or restrained. An App owner needs to have some frickken idea of capacity planning, if that 1Tb disk is already 90% full she needs to have done her homework and tread carefully. To my desk and say, "Hi I understand your the DBA, listen nobody has talked to me yet about resource allocation, could we schedule a meeting?" THAT is a good App Admin. But no. Doesn't happen, and guess who picks up the pieces? I don't want to teach these people. I want them to be professionals. I want their managers to mould them into people who aren't annoyances, but assets.
Someone document my competence? Every week we're asked to report, verbally, what we did, why. And grilled on it too. Who's grilling those users? How often? No I wouldn't like it if I were under the spotlight. Many moons ago I was within minutes of being fired in the first week of a new job because I ran a search for finding all indexes in a db, instead of knowing it by heart. Yep. The department head actually expected me to keep that info in my head. Possibly the crappiest place I'd ever worked, and would love to return and give them the finger (along with the rest of the hand 🙂
As it happens I'm mentoring this one young lass, I scratch my head sometimes and wonder why she's so hellbent on becoming a DBA, but I made a pledge to her to carve out x% of my time to her development - that's a greater commitment than the wooly promises of "We believe in career development" by HR. Plus frankly we are woefully undermanned, even with my boss plus me plus her, we'd still need another pair of hands.
Wow...I feel better after writing that out. 🙂
September 10, 2018 at 1:34 pm
JaybeeSQL - Monday, September 10, 2018 1:12 PMI'm highlighting incompetence that's harming my organisation, and MY actions are being questioned??!?!? By MY peers?? Where I'd thought I'd most likely get some tea and sympathy, which I'm sure User 2 is getting by the shoulder-towel at whatever website she uses (probably http://www.EngagementIsRetirement.com)The most galling aspect of this whole thing is that these users are allowed to wreak merry hell on the servers on which everyone expects MY DB's to be 100% up, lightning fast, get access to reports within 10 frickken seconds of opening a ticket. Yes, that's probably why I'm paid almost as much as those two users combined, shhhh, but you know, where's THEIR accountability?
No, I haven't insulted them. I'm a professional, I don't name-call, and yes, I know that's not what you meant. You meant if they feel insulted. If they do, that's their oversensitivity. If they're feeling intimidated, if they're that fragile, even if they're earning minimum wage but still can't adhere to a minimum of good practise, then quite frankly they need to resign.
No, I don't want User 1 to lose her job, User 2 I wouldn't shed a tear if she did BUT I'd far, far rather she were retrained or restrained. An App owner needs to have some frickken idea of capacity planning, if that 1Tb disk is already 90% full she needs to have done her homework and tread carefully. To my desk and say, "Hi I understand your the DBA, listen nobody has talked to me yet about resource allocation, could we schedule a meeting?" THAT is a good App Admin. But no. Doesn't happen, and guess who picks up the pieces? I don't want to teach these people. I want them to be professionals. I want their managers to mould them into people who aren't annoyances, but assets.
Someone document my competence? Every week we're asked to report, verbally, what we did, why. And grilled on it too. Who's grilling those users? How often? No I wouldn't like it if I were under the spotlight. Many moons ago I was within minutes of being fired in the first week of a new job because I ran a search for finding all indexes in a db, instead of knowing it by heart. Yep. The department head actually expected me to keep that info in my head. Possibly the crappiest place I'd ever worked, and would love to return and give them the finger (along with the rest of the hand 🙂
As it happens I'm mentoring this one young lass, I scratch my head sometimes and wonder why she's so hellbent on becoming a DBA, but I made a pledge to her to carve out x% of my time to her development - that's a greater commitment than the wooly promises of "We believe in career development" by HR. Plus frankly we are woefully undermanned, even with my boss plus me plus her, we'd still need another pair of hands.
Wow...I feel better after writing that out. 🙂
You know, those of us that have been around the block several times probably sympathize with you on one level because we have been there as well. We also probably have been counselled by our supervisor or manager because we didn't handle the situation appropriately or didn't take ownership of the problem, and/or didn't apprise them of the situation as well. You came here basically asking WWYD (what would you do) and you complain when you get our opinions (not mine, as I didn't give one on the original post) instead of tea and sympathy.
September 10, 2018 at 2:42 pm
In my experience when users are doing this it's because they don't have any other recourse. Chances are these people don't want to be writing SQL at all but simply haven't been given an alternative way to get what they need. So in short if you want to avoid being "that" DBA talk to them and figure out what they're actually doing and come up with a solution that works for both of you. If that means rewriting their queries or setting up some kind of extract to get them what they need that might be what you need to do.
September 10, 2018 at 5:51 pm
JaybeeSQL - Monday, September 10, 2018 1:12 PMI'm highlighting incompetence that's harming my organisation, and MY actions are being questioned??!?!? By MY peers?? Where I'd thought I'd most likely get some tea and sympathy, which I'm sure User 2 is getting by the shoulder-towel at whatever website she uses (probably http://www.EngagementIsRetirement.com)The most galling aspect of this whole thing is that these users are allowed to wreak merry hell on the servers on which everyone expects MY DB's to be 100% up, lightning fast, get access to reports within 10 frickken seconds of opening a ticket. Yes, that's probably why I'm paid almost as much as those two users combined, shhhh, but you know, where's THEIR accountability?
No, I haven't insulted them. I'm a professional, I don't name-call, and yes, I know that's not what you meant. You meant if they feel insulted. If they do, that's their oversensitivity. If they're feeling intimidated, if they're that fragile, even if they're earning minimum wage but still can't adhere to a minimum of good practise, then quite frankly they need to resign.
No, I don't want User 1 to lose her job, User 2 I wouldn't shed a tear if she did BUT I'd far, far rather she were retrained or restrained. An App owner needs to have some frickken idea of capacity planning, if that 1Tb disk is already 90% full she needs to have done her homework and tread carefully. To my desk and say, "Hi I understand your the DBA, listen nobody has talked to me yet about resource allocation, could we schedule a meeting?" THAT is a good App Admin. But no. Doesn't happen, and guess who picks up the pieces? I don't want to teach these people. I want them to be professionals. I want their managers to mould them into people who aren't annoyances, but assets.
Someone document my competence? Every week we're asked to report, verbally, what we did, why. And grilled on it too. Who's grilling those users? How often? No I wouldn't like it if I were under the spotlight. Many moons ago I was within minutes of being fired in the first week of a new job because I ran a search for finding all indexes in a db, instead of knowing it by heart. Yep. The department head actually expected me to keep that info in my head. Possibly the crappiest place I'd ever worked, and would love to return and give them the finger (along with the rest of the hand 🙂
As it happens I'm mentoring this one young lass, I scratch my head sometimes and wonder why she's so hellbent on becoming a DBA, but I made a pledge to her to carve out x% of my time to her development - that's a greater commitment than the wooly promises of "We believe in career development" by HR. Plus frankly we are woefully undermanned, even with my boss plus me plus her, we'd still need another pair of hands.
Wow...I feel better after writing that out. 🙂
Cool... glad you feel better. Glad you got it all out. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
September 10, 2018 at 11:02 pm
Lynn Pettis - Monday, September 10, 2018 1:34 PMYou know, those of us that have been around the block several times probably sympathize with you on one level because we have been there as well. We also probably have been counselled by our supervisor or manager because we didn't handle the situation appropriately or didn't take ownership of the problem, and/or didn't apprise them of the situation as well. You came here basically asking WWYD (what would you do) and you complain when you get our opinions (not mine, as I didn't give one on the original post) instead of tea and sympathy.
We're not here to babysit incompetent users, but to safeguard our employers from them. Yes I apprised the higher ups, yes I took ownership. I learned very early that not doing so was costly. Frankly I'd appreciate some "counselling" , as you put it, from the higher-ups, even if only to say, "You did your job under tough conditions". Which I hope will happen. And it's a human thing (you remember those weird looking mammals in cloth, don'tcha?); the strongest of us can still REALLY use some human warmth on our side, just because I'm not gonna title my thread, "I need some sympathy please, boo hoo!" doesn't mean I couldn't frickken use some:)
):
@ZZartin " Chances are these people don't want to be writing SQL at all but simply haven't been given an alternative way to get what they need."
Buddy, I MYSELF don't want to be writing SQL. I'd far rather be married to Jessica Alba and spending her money sitting on the Riviera sipping Goldschlager while her staff tend to my every desire while she's off shooting Tarantino's next flick, and minus Miss Alba I'm confident one day I will plus lots more, but as nobody has "given" me a faster way to achieve that, here I am.
🙂
September 11, 2018 at 5:58 am
JaybeeSQL - Monday, September 10, 2018 1:12 PMI'm highlighting incompetence that's harming my organisation, and MY actions are being questioned??!?!? By MY peers?? Where I'd thought I'd most likely get some tea and sympathy, which I'm sure User 2 is getting by the shoulder-towel at whatever website she uses (probably http://www.EngagementIsRetirement.com)The most galling aspect of this whole thing is that these users are allowed to wreak merry hell on the servers on which everyone expects MY DB's to be 100% up, lightning fast, get access to reports within 10 frickken seconds of opening a ticket. Yes, that's probably why I'm paid almost as much as those two users combined, shhhh, but you know, where's THEIR accountability?
No, I haven't insulted them. I'm a professional, I don't name-call, and yes, I know that's not what you meant. You meant if they feel insulted. If they do, that's their oversensitivity. If they're feeling intimidated, if they're that fragile, even if they're earning minimum wage but still can't adhere to a minimum of good practise, then quite frankly they need to resign.
No, I don't want User 1 to lose her job, User 2 I wouldn't shed a tear if she did BUT I'd far, far rather she were retrained or restrained. An App owner needs to have some frickken idea of capacity planning, if that 1Tb disk is already 90% full she needs to have done her homework and tread carefully. To my desk and say, "Hi I understand your the DBA, listen nobody has talked to me yet about resource allocation, could we schedule a meeting?" THAT is a good App Admin. But no. Doesn't happen, and guess who picks up the pieces? I don't want to teach these people. I want them to be professionals. I want their managers to mould them into people who aren't annoyances, but assets.
Someone document my competence? Every week we're asked to report, verbally, what we did, why. And grilled on it too. Who's grilling those users? How often? No I wouldn't like it if I were under the spotlight. Many moons ago I was within minutes of being fired in the first week of a new job because I ran a search for finding all indexes in a db, instead of knowing it by heart. Yep. The department head actually expected me to keep that info in my head. Possibly the crappiest place I'd ever worked, and would love to return and give them the finger (along with the rest of the hand 🙂
As it happens I'm mentoring this one young lass, I scratch my head sometimes and wonder why she's so hellbent on becoming a DBA, but I made a pledge to her to carve out x% of my time to her development - that's a greater commitment than the wooly promises of "We believe in career development" by HR. Plus frankly we are woefully undermanned, even with my boss plus me plus her, we'd still need another pair of hands.
Wow...I feel better after writing that out. 🙂
Glad you feel better.
Look, I'm old. I've done a bunch of really stupid stuff in my career that hurt me, professionally. The biggest one was becoming a jerk because of all the jerks and idiots that I had to put up with daily. I just reached a point where it was far easier to just slam people to the dirt than anything else. I'm telling you now, it burns bridges. People have long memories and will get back at you given the opportunity. Where I succeeded better was where I recognized the ideas of servant-based leadership. Instead of being a monster (my earned nickname is "The Scary DBA"), I tried really hard to help people, first and always (within reason). Steve is right, document what's going on, time lost, time wasted, all the rest, but... Don't get angry and vindictive and simply try to shut stuff down. It'll feel great in the short term, but over time, it'll come to hurt you.
So if I've said anything that came across as an attack or highly critical personally, it wasn't meant that way. I'm trying to help you avoid some of the errors I've made.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
September 11, 2018 at 7:31 am
JaybeeSQL - Monday, September 10, 2018 11:02 PMWe're not here to babysit incompetent users, but to safeguard our employers from them. Yes I apprised the higher ups, yes I took ownership. I learned very early that not doing so was costly. Frankly I'd appreciate some "counselling" , as you put it, from the higher-ups, even if only to say, "You did your job under tough conditions". Which I hope will happen. And it's a human thing (you remember those weird looking mammals in cloth, don'tcha?); the strongest of us can still REALLY use some human warmth on our side, just because I'm not gonna title my thread, "I need some sympathy please, boo hoo!" doesn't mean I couldn't frickken use some:)):
@ZZartin " Chances are these people don't want to be writing SQL at all but simply haven't been given an alternative way to get what they need."
Buddy, I MYSELF don't want to be writing SQL. I'd far rather be married to Jessica Alba and spending her money sitting on the Riviera sipping Goldschlager while her staff tend to my every desire while she's off shooting Tarantino's next flick, and minus Miss Alba I'm confident one day I will plus lots more, but as nobody has "given" me a faster way to achieve that, here I am.
🙂
You seem to think I am inhuman, sorry to disappoint you. And yes, I recognize sarcasm as it is a primary means of communication with family, friends, and my co-workers. I love writing SQL and solving other peoples problems and puzzles. I was not attacking you, simply informing you that you asked WWYD, and people gave you their opinions on what they would do. I have to agree with much of what has been said. I also understand your frustration as I deal with it frequently myself every time I get a request to rework SQL code that went through development, test, QA, IPAT (a government thing before software can go into production) and finally production before issues with the code are found because a developer didn't bother to ask me (probably because none of them know I exist as I am apparently a best kept secret) if the code was production worthy. I curse, rant, and then rewrite the code so we can fix the customers issue(s). The code goes back in to the product and I never hear anything again for that piece of code until it breaks again.
September 11, 2018 at 2:24 pm
Grant Fritchey - Tuesday, September 11, 2018 5:58 AMGlad you feel better.
Look, I'm old. I've done a bunch of really stupid stuff in my career that hurt me, professionally. The biggest one was becoming a jerk because of all the jerks and idiots that I had to put up with daily. I just reached a point where it was far easier to just slam people to the dirt than anything else. I'm telling you now, it burns bridges. People have long memories and will get back at you given the opportunity. Where I succeeded better was where I recognized the ideas of servant-based leadership. Instead of being a monster (my earned nickname is "The Scary DBA"), I tried really hard to help people, first and always (within reason). Steve is right, document what's going on, time lost, time wasted, all the rest, but... Don't get angry and vindictive and simply try to shut stuff down. It'll feel great in the short term, but over time, it'll come to hurt you.
So if I've said anything that came across as an attack or highly critical personally, it wasn't meant that way. I'm trying to help you avoid some of the errors I've made.
It didn't come across as an attack, but a lack of solidarity. What pains me is that everyone else is allowed to be an idiot, and say, "Sorry" while laughing in my face. I would have loved to work in places (as I do now, finally) where people say, "Mistake made, lesson learned, XYZ". I got a modicum of thanks today. Which felt good. I don't want anyone here thinking I'm some future 'Grumpy DBA', it's just that I've worked in far too many places where, at the first sign of weakness, the knives came out, wielded no less by those you thought had your back. Until recently, I never got a pass for anything less than 100% uptime and 99.99% zippy executions in Prod.
I rail - truly - at the culture within IT in general, and SQL in particular, that if you don't know BOL by heart you must be an incompetent. But I see it at about 50% of the places I've been, colleagues who entered the profession not from a healthy love of Computing and the vast benefits it brings humanity, but a mechanistic psychopathy that prefers communicating with inanimate objects - and sees those who are 'Other' as uncommitted at best, invaders at worst. Like the scenes in films when zombies realise you're pretending to be as psychotic as they are. Hell I've even seen it a couple of times here at SSC and did my damnedest to keep my fingers off the keyboard and not wish the caustic little prck a long, miserable life with MS (3 likely meanings, all viable).
What I want is forgiveness PLUS multilateral progress. - I'll HAPPILY go to User 2 and say, "Look, I was a tad harsh..." but what I WANT is her boss to say, "You ticked off that DBA (and me), go make nice with a hearty, technical roadmap", then for her to say to me, "Look, I know I was a dummy, I messed up - guess what? INSTANT forgiveness!!! Ok not instant, I'll probably give her the heated, "Yeah b1tch you did grrr!" look - for a couple of seconds. I don't want bad relations with her or anyone else, I want an admission of lack of experience/training, I like that honesty. I'll thank her for it, and get her (most, if not all the way) to where she needs to be. The quickest way to obtain forgiveness, is to admit your sin without needing to be cornered into doing so. Forgiveness and forthrightness spark each other.
Speaking of which, thank you Grant for the advice, it IS sound and I will try to embed it into a permanent part of my working style.
Sorry for the ramble all...long long couple days 🙂
September 11, 2018 at 2:49 pm
JaybeeSQL - Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:24 PMIt didn't come across as an attack, but a lack of solidarity. What pains me is that everyone else is allowed to be an idiot, and say, "Sorry" while laughing in my face. I would have loved to work in places (as I do now, finally) where people say, "Mistake made, lesson learned, XYZ". I got a modicum of thanks today. Which felt good. I don't want anyone here thinking I'm some future 'Grumpy DBA', it's just that I've worked in far too many places where, at the first sign of weakness, the knives came out, wielded no less by those you thought had your back. Until recently, I never got a pass for anything less than 100% uptime and 99.99% zippy executions in Prod.I rail - truly - at the culture within IT in general, and SQL in particular, that if you don't know BOL by heart you must be an incompetent. But I see it at about 50% of the places I've been, colleagues who entered the profession not from a healthy love of Computing and the vast benefits it brings humanity, but a mechanistic psychopathy that prefers communicating with inanimate objects - and sees those who are 'Other' as uncommitted at best, invaders at worst. Like the scenes in films when zombies realise you're pretending to be as psychotic as they are. Hell I've even seen it a couple of times here at SSC and did my damnedest to keep my fingers off the keyboard and not wish the caustic little prck a long, miserable life with MS (3 likely meanings, all viable).
What I want is forgiveness PLUS multilateral progress. - I'll HAPPILY go to User 2 and say, "Look, I was a tad harsh..." but what I WANT is her boss to say, "You ticked off that DBA (and me), go make nice with a hearty, technical roadmap", then for her to say to me, "Look, I know I was a dummy, I messed up - guess what? INSTANT forgiveness!!! Ok not instant, I'll probably give her the heated, "Yeah b1tch you did grrr!" look - for a couple of seconds. I don't want bad relations with her or anyone else, I want an admission of lack of experience/training, I like that honesty. I'll thank her for it, and get her (most, if not all the way) to where she needs to be. The quickest way to obtain forgiveness, is to admit your sin without needing to be cornered into doing so. Forgiveness and forthrightness spark each other.
Speaking of which, thank you Grant for the advice, it IS sound and I will try to embed it into a permanent part of my working style.
Sorry for the ramble all...long long couple days 🙂
I do sympathize with what you are going through, been there and done it. And don't take this the wrong way but as I have told my girls growing up, what you want and what you get are two different things. Through a long career in IT and many years on the pitch officiating youth and high school soccer, I have learned that you have to let things go that you have no control over or it will eat you up and spit you out. Patience is virtue that will benefit you. They may never apologize, but you need to forgive them at least for yourself. If you have kept your supervisor aware of what is happening, let him (or her) deal with it. If you treat them the way you want to be treated regardless of the actually outcome, they may (MAY) come around and realize that you are willing to help them and their behavior may change as well.
September 12, 2018 at 6:17 am
What would I do? I mean, if I'm truly accountable, I likely would educate them as much as I could to stop whatever the hell they are doing. I mean, it's not rocket science. If you're doing a job wrong and I'm the accountable party on the project, you're going to stop. If it continues even after training, then that's another ballgame.
If you can't get to that other ballgame because you are not accountable for these users in meaning, you are not their boss and can't get them to stop or get better. Then I would likely find someone who can and see if those resources can help resolve the problem either through them helping emphasize the education or take other actions that may not be so well liked be the users who are not improving.
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