July 11, 2017 at 9:11 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Unlimited PTO
July 11, 2017 at 11:43 pm
Friends had a parrot that could walk around the house all day long but when it was bed time or they went out they would put the parrot in it's cage and close the cage door. One day, although the parrot had freedom to go where he wants, they forgot to close the cage door at bed time. When they got into bed they realized they forgot but thought hey, this parrot walk around the house all day so there should not be a problem. The next moment though, the parrot started screeching like hell. When they got there the parrot was safely in its cage and nothing was wrong and it only stopped the noise when they closed the cage door. It wasn't feeling safe with the door open. What I am trying to say Andy, as you rightly said in your article, some people feel safer with the structure as the parrot felt safer with the door closed. I am in a way one of those people. I have a new job that I started on 1 July and the company is located in a high level traffic at peak time area so they said well, if you are willing to start at 6 you can leave at 3 which is outside of the peak traffic hours. That I like but please structure my leave so I can know how many days I can take or accrue and no-one is going to mistrust no-one.
:-PManie Verster
Developer
Johannesburg
South Africa
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Holy Bible
I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. - Everett Mckinley Dirkson (Well, I am trying. - Manie Verster)
July 12, 2017 at 7:52 am
WOW, Andy, WHERE is it that you work??? My current job is the most restrictive I've ever worked. Very little vacation time is accrued. Sick leave is small. The hours I work are regulated; that's because I'm am hourly employee. With the possible exception of the C-Suite, everyone is hourly. And even the C-Suite people might be hourly. When I described this to my dad he said its reminiscent of the 60's and 70's.
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
July 12, 2017 at 7:54 am
Can you take 2 hours of PTO a day under this plan?
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July 12, 2017 at 8:01 am
My company allows us to accrue PTO, up to 480 hours. We also have the option to cash in up to 3 weeks of PTO per year if we are not going to take time away from work. It's great to be able to choose the money over the time-off and banking a lot of PTO is beneficial to those who are near retirement because they can choose to take a lump sum payment or use their PTO prior to their retirement taking effect so they can stop working up to 3 months before officially retiring, but continue to receive insurance benefits and a pay check. For many, that's a better option than an unlimited plan. There's much to be said for banking PTO.
July 12, 2017 at 8:02 am
Andy,
At many jobs, unused accrued PTO hours can be cashed out at different times or when you leave that company. Just wondering, with unlimited PTO, do you accrue PTO hours? Unlimited PTO could work against you if you can't cash out. Many companies are finding that employees are owed a lot of money when they leave. Unlimited PTO could be a big savings for companies as it is effectively a use it or lose it policy.
July 12, 2017 at 8:05 am
Donna Dupree - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:01 AMMy company allows us to accrue PTO, up to 480 hours. We also have the option to cash in up to 3 weeks of PTO per year if we are not going to take time away from work. It's great to be able to choose the money over the time-off and banking a lot of PTO is beneficial to those who are near retirement because they can choose to take a lump sum payment or use their PTO prior to their retirement taking effect so they can stop working up to 3 months before officially retiring, but continue to receive insurance benefits and a pay check. For many, that's a better option than an unlimited plan. There's much to be said for banking PTO.
I just posted something similar. Unlimited PTO could be a big savings for companies as it is effectively a use it or lose it policy.
July 12, 2017 at 8:25 am
Toyota North America's new HQ in Plano, TX offers the same thing, and they advertise it all over their LinkedIn recruiting efforts. Not sure about onsite/WFH mix. I'm tempted to see what they have available.
My current gig has me working in Downtown Dallas every day, no WFH option for contractors. I live 45 miles away. But, they did let me pick a 6:30-3:30 "shift" that works for me considering Dallas traffic suckage 😀
I see mobile/flexible getting more and more popular, but not the norm until after I retire (target 2029...)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Standing in the gap between Consultant and ContractorKevin3NFDallasDBAs.com/BlogWhy is my SQL Log File HUGE?!?![/url]The future of the DBA role...[/url]SQL Security Model in Plain English[/url]
July 12, 2017 at 8:32 am
Kevin3NF - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 AMToyota North America's new HQ in Plano, TX offers the same thing, and they advertise it all over their LinkedIn recruiting efforts. Not sure about onsite/WFH mix. I'm tempted to see what they have available.My current gig has me working in Downtown Dallas every day, no WFH option for contractors. I live 45 miles away. But, they did let me pick a 6:30-3:30 "shift" that works for me considering Dallas traffic suckage 😀
I see mobile/flexible getting more and more popular, but not the norm until after I retire (target 2029...)
WOW, 45 miles commute? Well, I guess I'm worse. Mine's closer to 70. Do you have a horrendously long commute?
Kindest Regards, Rod Connect with me on LinkedIn.
July 12, 2017 at 9:02 am
Rod at work - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:32 AMKevin3NF - Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:25 AMToyota North America's new HQ in Plano, TX offers the same thing, and they advertise it all over their LinkedIn recruiting efforts. Not sure about onsite/WFH mix. I'm tempted to see what they have available.My current gig has me working in Downtown Dallas every day, no WFH option for contractors. I live 45 miles away. But, they did let me pick a 6:30-3:30 "shift" that works for me considering Dallas traffic suckage 😀
I see mobile/flexible getting more and more popular, but not the norm until after I retire (target 2029...)
WOW, 45 miles commute? Well, I guess I'm worse. Mine's closer to 70. Do you have a horrendously long commute?
45 each way....takes 50 minutes in, 70 home...on good days. But it pays well 🙂
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Standing in the gap between Consultant and ContractorKevin3NFDallasDBAs.com/BlogWhy is my SQL Log File HUGE?!?![/url]The future of the DBA role...[/url]SQL Security Model in Plain English[/url]
July 12, 2017 at 10:12 am
I've interviewed at a couple places that offer this and drilled them pretty extensively about it. It seems like a good deal - you're going to be able to take at least 3 weeks a year at a minimum. One of the places was a consulting firm; anyone who's worked in consulting that you will work some long hours while not on vacation. The general rule at the firm I interviewed with was that people would take some time off after a project; the duration would be based on how intense a project was - how long it was, how many hours you had to work.
As a former consultant, another form of "unlimited PTO" for me was a manager putting me on the bench for a month or longer after a hard-core project with tough deadlines that had me working 60+ hours a week for many months. Generally you are expected to work on internal projects, attend training, etc but after tough project there would be no such expectations.
The concept of unlimited PTO does not change the reality, however, that - to keep your job and advance in your career you need to show your employer some return on their investment. I'm sure that people who take 4 months of vacation a year end up with unpaid unlimited PTO that they're forced to take.
-- Itzik Ben-Gan 2001
July 12, 2017 at 11:35 am
I'm not sure how I'd fare in an environment like Andy's, I tend to prefer a bit more structure.
BUT I do think it's one of those things that's probably also self-correcting. You'll have the "abusers" who pop in for a week, then disappear for 3 weeks of the month, who eventually get told they're not meeting their goals (I'm presuming there's still a periodic performance review.) You'll have others who do the same thing, but also put in 18hr days during that week and get everything done. What would be interesting to know, would be how much time people are *actually* working, what it averages out to over a year. I'd bet a fair number are putting in closer to 45-50hr work weeks, on average, even with taking multiple weeks off over the year.
Where I work, you accrue vacation and sick time separately. Vacation is capped at 240hrs, anything over that turns into "use or lose" time, and from what I've been told managers cannot refuse a time-off request when it's use-or-lose, so a lot of people disappear for the last week or two or three of December. Sick time just keeps on accruing up until retirement, although you don't get paid for any sick time you didn't use. You can also work a "compressed" work schedule, either eight 9hr days + one 8hr day + one day off every pay period (2wks,) or eight 10hr days and two days off every pay period.
Once you start working one of those schedules, you tend to not use a lot of vacation time...
To top it off, there's also a telework policy, so you can request (and generally be granted) one day a week to work from home...
July 12, 2017 at 11:43 am
Andy, just to confirm you're talking about "PTO" which is Paid Time Off and not something like un-paid leave of absence?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
July 12, 2017 at 11:54 am
I doubt it's really as free form as take off whenever you want, unless you're working almost exclusively on solo projects that require little to no interaction with others that sounds like a recipe for being able to blame employees for not being available when needed.
July 12, 2017 at 11:59 am
I actually rather see a system where additional PTO is earned. For example, if a team meet their deliverable, then everyone on the team gets an extra three days of PTO, if an individual meets their performance goals, then he or she get an additional three days, and if the company meets it's year end financial goals then the Christmas / New Years holiday is extended another three days.
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
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