March 19, 2014 at 8:28 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Privacy and Data
March 20, 2014 at 2:47 am
I would expect that data professionals might want to ensure they understand how their data is being handled and secured
The above statement I wholeheartedly agree with.
just in case anyone asks
The above caveat I do not.
All of us involved (including developers - no shirking here!!!) should be concerned with how any data is managed. Everyone is a stakeholder in this and we should ensure that the right policies are enforced even if it is someone else's responsibility. If we are concerned that appropriate data management policies are not in place or are not enforced then it is all of our obligations to raise it.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 20, 2014 at 4:48 am
As data professionals, 100% agree. And not just because someone might ask. It is part of our responsibility to secure data and know how it is secured. Also part of our responsibility to grant access to the data, and to audit this access.
The problems start when the data is simply extracted by a user into a local MS Excel file - and becomes impossible to control.
March 20, 2014 at 7:52 am
In the last ten years I Have had the pleasure to work.
With at least four different offshores that demanded real copies of databases to use in the development of their product.
Three of them ended up having to admit that they sold some or all of this data.
The forth pointed out that this would be a possibility that they would not be liable for in their contracts up front.
Until we stop giving full and uncensored access to third party vendors how will their ever be data security?
March 20, 2014 at 8:10 am
PHYData DBA (3/20/2014)
In the last ten years I Have had the pleasure to work.With at least four different offshores that demanded real copies of databases to use in the development of their product.
Three of them ended up having to admit that they sold some or all of this data.
The forth pointed out that this would be a possibility that they would not be liable for in their contracts up front.
Do you have any links to public documents on this, preferably court cases or news articles? This would be an amazing cautionary tale for what can happen when you send data to outside/out of country vendors.
Andy sql - yes, one of the most common requests in many businesses is "give me X in Excel". Assuming that X isn't already in Excel/Access and we don't even know it exists until the person keeping it is on leave.
March 20, 2014 at 8:19 am
I use to want to know how my data was secured and make sure it was not being put at risk. Use to being the key phase here.
I was actually reprimanded (actual HR sit down and note put in my employee file) for "not being a team player" and for "refusing to follow instructions" because I would not copy sensitive personal information (including SSN and some CC numbers, all in clear text) from our production system to several development systems.
My boss told me that my job was to do as I was told and keep the servers running. Let Data Security worry about the security.
The sad truth is that being a DBA does not make you a "data professional" in most companies. It makes you a data monkey that had better do as you are told. If you put up a fuss, you will either get reprimanded or fired.
I left that company soon afterwards, but I have found the same attitude in most other companies that I have worked for.
In my 18 years or experience, the DBA "data professional" that you speak of, with any kind of real decision making power is a myth.
March 20, 2014 at 9:56 am
Jim Youmans-439383 (3/20/2014)
I use to want to know how my data was secured and make sure it was not being put at risk. Use to being the key phase here.I was actually reprimanded (actual HR sit down and note put in my employee file) for "not being a team player" and for "refusing to follow instructions" because I would not copy sensitive personal information (including SSN and some CC numbers, all in clear text) from our production system to several development systems.
My boss told me that my job was to do as I was told and keep the servers running. Let Data Security worry about the security.
The sad truth is that being a DBA does not make you a "data professional" in most companies. It makes you a data monkey that had better do as you are told. If you put up a fuss, you will either get reprimanded or fired.
I left that company soon afterwards, but I have found the same attitude in most other companies that I have worked for.
In my 18 years or experience, the DBA "data professional" that you speak of, with any kind of real decision making power is a myth.
I wouldn't refuse, and I'd say the note was justified. It's a bad idea, but don't confuse your rights/responsibilities with the company's. I wouldn't copy the data unless my boss had given me a document saying I needed to do this, and I'd have notified him this was a potential issue.
At the end of the day, this isn't the same as some illegal activity. My job is to get work done and inform the company of potential issues with the process. If they still want it done and assume responsibility, I'm OK with that.
March 20, 2014 at 11:03 am
Nadrek (3/20/2014)
PHYData DBA (3/20/2014)
In the last ten years I Have had the pleasure to work.With at least four different offshores that demanded real copies of databases to use in the development of their product.
Three of them ended up having to admit that they sold some or all of this data.
The forth pointed out that this would be a possibility that they would not be liable for in their contracts up front.
Do you have any links to public documents on this, preferably court cases or news articles? This would be an amazing cautionary tale for what can happen when you send data to outside/out of country vendors.
The Congressional Hearings about Targets Breach is the only start at any public forum mentioning this -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-levin/target-hearing-highlights_b_4733596.html
There are two reasons for a total lack of public record on these data breeches from third parties:
1 - All the major offshore Countries have no law of any kind requiring any private party to report data breaches of any nature.
Even If all the data your offshore vendor had access to walked out the building every day via employee thumb drives and was sold seconds later, they never have to report it ever. If they do, most contracts have a binding arbitration agreement about "data loss" that will keep it out of public record.
2 - 90% of the legal battles over this are settled either out of court or via a binding arbitration agreement. Both of these have no public record.
That is why it is so important to "corrupt" data you send out to third party's.
March 20, 2014 at 11:30 am
Data security certainly isn't something that's enforced very well, even by the agencies created to do so :-D. The company I work for handles some sensitive data that's required by law to have several layers of protection; however, we use vendor software for our operations. This vendor software was approved by the regulatory agency that created these policies.
Sadly, none of the data in the databases created by the vendor use even the slightest shred of the protection they're supposed to have. Encryption is only used on users passwords; the rest of the data in the databases is in plain text. Names, addresses, phone numbers, everything (not SSNs or credit card numbers, since we don't need those, thank goodness!). Even if these things were encrypted, the SA login name and password are stored in plain text in yet another table, along with the encryption key and hash. Joy!
Unfortunately, despite this vendor being contracted by the regulatory agency here, they've been operating for about 8 years without the slightest mishap in terms of inspection. How this happens is beyond me. Demanding that this sort of data be so heavily protected while you contract out to a company that doesn't even try is mind-boggling.
- 😀
March 20, 2014 at 11:57 am
hisakimatama (3/20/2014)
Unfortunately, despite this vendor being contracted by the regulatory agency here, they've been operating for about 8 years without the slightest mishap in terms of inspection. How this happens is beyond me. Demanding that this sort of data be so heavily protected while you contract out to a company that doesn't even try is mind-boggling.
I have been around more than one audit. Most of them, including the IT auditor, would be baffled by seeing the statement [font="Courier New"]SELECT * FROM TransTbl WHERE EntryDt > DateAdd('y',-1,GetDate())[/font].
They generally just put into the IT do you have the rules written down and can you give me the Excel SS of these 50 accounts or these reports. So once the SW is "certified" they just accept the certificate, and don't look in the background.
But I've done enough of this stuff over the years that I don't do stuff that is at risk of security without something written down. I also make sure that if there is a financial change I have it written down before I do it.
My current company has to observe the HIPAA and PIPEDA (CDN HIPAA) regs. They have a security department that if you forward onto them the request -- and they approve it -- you are legally off the hook for anything. I like that.
----------------
Jim P.
A little bit of this and a little byte of that can cause bloatware.
March 20, 2014 at 1:27 pm
hisakimatama (3/20/2014)
Data security certainly isn't something that's enforced very well, even by the agencies created to do so :-D.Unfortunately, despite this vendor being contracted by the regulatory agency here, they've been operating for about 8 years without the slightest mishap in terms of inspection. How this happens is beyond me. Demanding that this sort of data be so heavily protected while you contract out to a company that doesn't even try is mind-boggling.
It has been my experience since the 80's that every regulation about data security has exemptions that allow for third party vendors and Grand Fathering of existing processes.
Data is only as secure as the least secure thing that possessed it.
In other countries it is illegal to take someone else's card from them to swipe it for charges.
Here
March 21, 2014 at 4:26 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (3/20/2014)
Jim Youmans-439383 (3/20/2014)
I use to want to know how my data was secured and make sure it was not being put at risk. Use to being the key phase here.I was actually reprimanded (actual HR sit down and note put in my employee file) for "not being a team player" and for "refusing to follow instructions" because I would not copy sensitive personal information (including SSN and some CC numbers, all in clear text) from our production system to several development systems.
My boss told me that my job was to do as I was told and keep the servers running. Let Data Security worry about the security.
The sad truth is that being a DBA does not make you a "data professional" in most companies. It makes you a data monkey that had better do as you are told. If you put up a fuss, you will either get reprimanded or fired.
I left that company soon afterwards, but I have found the same attitude in most other companies that I have worked for.
In my 18 years or experience, the DBA "data professional" that you speak of, with any kind of real decision making power is a myth.
I wouldn't refuse, and I'd say the note was justified. It's a bad idea, but don't confuse your rights/responsibilities with the company's. I wouldn't copy the data unless my boss had given me a document saying I needed to do this, and I'd have notified him this was a potential issue.
At the end of the day, this isn't the same as some illegal activity. My job is to get work done and inform the company of potential issues with the process. If they still want it done and assume responsibility, I'm OK with that.
I had a similar issue recently with a member of my team at the time being continually asked to do things which required them being given details which they shouldn't have access to in order to perform a different team's job. I raised this with the architectural team (which had the companies Security Architect and responsibilities for such things). I said that we were happy to do the task even though it wasn't our responsibilities but were concerned that we shouldn't be doing it as not only should we not have the information and also development teams are transient so eventually we would not be around to do it.
It believe that it ruffled a few feathers but my "reasonable" approach meant that no-one could say I was being obstructive. In fact someone said by raising the security breach that the lost all plausible deniability i.e. something had to be done otherwise it was their neck for the chopping block.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 21, 2014 at 4:55 am
PHYData DBA (3/20/2014)
In the last ten years I Have had the pleasure to work.With at least four different offshores that demanded real copies of databases to use in the development of their product.
Three of them ended up having to admit that they sold some or all of this data.
The forth pointed out that this would be a possibility that they would not be liable for in their contracts up front.
Until we stop giving full and uncensored access to third party vendors how will their ever be data security?
As a developer I never want real data. Realistic data: yes. Real data: no.
I don't want access to the production database either.
It is not that I can't be trusted nor that I would mess things up. It is just that there is no need for me to have these things. I feel that same way about access to source code; no one outside of development (except any support functions who also maintain applications - which is a development function) should have access to modify code. In fact, I would want serious justification provided for why anyone would want access to read the code as there is often enough information to assist someone to carry out illegal, and certainly immoral, acts.
Anyone in security will tell you to only grant the minimal permissions for anyone to perform their own job. No more.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
March 24, 2014 at 6:14 am
So many people in IT just dont care, unless they have had a personal bad experience.
I had one data-warehouse that shrunk when the PCI-DSS / DP Act in the UK made room for directors to be personally fined and/or be sent to prison company etc. Until then I explored every avenue in getting the security in place to stop over 500 people from seeing credit card numbers and [personal information.
But without the court cases and without public fines too many companies are now ignoring the requirements.
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