September 26, 2013 at 8:19 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Dating Your Employer
September 27, 2013 at 2:11 am
Working freelance I think this applies far less to me, however, having been a permanent employee and working with permanent employees, some of whom I am lucky enough to still call friends, I cannot encourage people to strongly consider this advice.
By the very nature of freelancing, I move from company to company and find that how good a place is to work at for anyone is based on the culture most of all and not the facilities, size of company, sector nor location. Remember that you are putting yourself up to possibly spending the rest of your working life there (dating analogy still applying?).
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
September 27, 2013 at 5:20 am
Very good advice. So how's your job hunt going so far Steve?!
September 27, 2013 at 5:56 am
Having just been on the job market for 4 months over the summer (what a great time to be without a job), I can't agree more. But even before the first date is the talk with Yenta the matchmaker. That's a whole dance in itself, whether it's an agency or an internal recruiter.
In my recent job search, I found there were two types of first dates. One was like meeting over a cup of coffee at Starbucks or similar, and having a nice conversation. The other seemed to me more like being given a cup of coffee, but sitting in an interrogation room at the local police station and being grilled. Guess which one I favored.
Side question: I had an interview of the latter sort where after a half hour of grilling me, the interviewer excused himself and left the room. For over 30 minutes! Question to the audience: At what point would you have left? I didn't leave because this was my first or second interview being back on the market, and after the first 5 minutes I knew I wasn't going to come back for another, so I decided to use it as practice.
Cheers,
Tom
September 27, 2013 at 6:13 am
Tom Bakerman (9/27/2013)
...Side question: I had an interview of the latter sort where after a half hour of grilling me, the interviewer excused himself and left the room. For over 30 minutes! Question to the audience: At what point would you have left? I didn't leave because this was my first or second interview being back on the market, and after the first 5 minutes I knew I wasn't going to come back for another, so I decided to use it as practice...
I hate this practice. It does not differentiate between lack of initiative and manners. I suppose, to argue with myself, one could go to reception, however, if I made it to reception only to find out it was a test I feel that I would be unlikely to accept any offer.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
September 27, 2013 at 6:24 am
Gary Varga (9/27/2013)
Tom Bakerman (9/27/2013)
...Side question: I had an interview of the latter sort where after a half hour of grilling me, the interviewer excused himself and left the room. For over 30 minutes! Question to the audience: At what point would you have left? I didn't leave because this was my first or second interview being back on the market, and after the first 5 minutes I knew I wasn't going to come back for another, so I decided to use it as practice...I hate this practice. It does not differentiate between lack of initiative and manners. I suppose, to argue with myself, one could go to reception, however, if I made it to reception only to find out it was a test I feel that I would be unlikely to accept any offer.
Leaving an interviewee for half an hour to stew is a practice? I once had the interviewer show up about half an hour late for the interview. I didn't really try on the interview after that since I had no intention of working there but went through the paces as a sort of practice anyway. Nowadays we have smartphones so I'd likely fire up a round of Plants vs Zombies or something like that and if there was no interviewer when I had finished (10-15 minutes), I'd probably just let someone know that I'm leaving. Wouldn't want to work somewhere that disrespects someone. If there was some kind of emergency (like kid in the hospital thing, not project behind schedule and stakeholder needs to talk thing) then they'll call, apologize and offer reschedule.
September 27, 2013 at 6:35 am
Ian Massi (9/27/2013)
Gary Varga (9/27/2013)
Tom Bakerman (9/27/2013)
...Side question: I had an interview of the latter sort where after a half hour of grilling me, the interviewer excused himself and left the room. For over 30 minutes! Question to the audience: At what point would you have left? I didn't leave because this was my first or second interview being back on the market, and after the first 5 minutes I knew I wasn't going to come back for another, so I decided to use it as practice...I hate this practice. It does not differentiate between lack of initiative and manners. I suppose, to argue with myself, one could go to reception, however, if I made it to reception only to find out it was a test I feel that I would be unlikely to accept any offer.
Leaving an interviewee for half an hour to stew is a practice? I once had the interviewer show up about half an hour late for the interview. I didn't really try on the interview after that since I had no intention of working there but went through the paces as a sort of practice anyway. Nowadays we have smartphones so I'd likely fire up a round of Plants vs Zombies or something like that and if there was no interviewer when I had finished (10-15 minutes), I'd probably just let someone know that I'm leaving. Wouldn't want to work somewhere that disrespects someone. If there was some kind of emergency (like kid in the hospital thing, not project behind schedule and stakeholder needs to talk thing) then they'll call, apologize and offer reschedule.
This is a practice? I hadn't even considered that! I thought it was just rude. The guy came back after the 30 or so minutes and thanked me for my time. That was it, interview over.
September 27, 2013 at 6:51 am
... and definitely negotiate on the benefits (remember that you should care about your total benefit stack and value, not just the salary) ...
Benefits are negotiable? Does anyone here work for an organization where benefits (healthcare plan, paid time off, etc.) are negotiable?
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise. Instead, seek what they sought." - Matsuo Basho
September 27, 2013 at 7:37 am
Practice? Oh yes!!! I believe that it comes from the field of Management Consulting. Who's surprised now?
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
September 27, 2013 at 7:38 am
Eric M Russell (9/27/2013)
... and definitely negotiate on the benefits (remember that you should care about your total benefit stack and value, not just the salary) ...
Benefits are negotiable? Does anyone here work for an organization where benefits (healthcare plan, paid time off, etc.) are negotiable?
My last two jobs I negotiated to get an extra week of vacation over their standard and got it. I think things like healthcare and dental aren't as negotiable at most companies.
It never hurts to ask, the worst thing they can do is say no.
September 27, 2013 at 8:21 am
Eric, what is negotiable varies by company. Sometimes there is room to talk on salary. Insurance and 401k rarely. Time off, it depends - getting extra paid days is hard, getting an ok to take more time unpaid is often easy (and you just work the salary to make it so you end up at the same place). Training is a good ask. Flex schedule. Comp time. Getting a company phone and getting to pick the phone. Picking your laptop. Being a local admin (tell me that isn't worth something!). Big monitors, special keyboard are smaller asks, but why not ask? Always good to ask about a bonus program, tuition assistance. Ask for exam reimbursement. Paid time to go to training (even if they won't pay). It would be rare to not get something, because they want you - that's the time of most leverage for you.
September 27, 2013 at 8:25 am
The analogy to the police interview is sometimes all too apt. Yet I think the coffee talk is too far the other way in most cases. It's hard to get right. I don't mind the grilling, its a chance to see what they care about. I took a contract once as a DBA that had no technical questions, it was about projects and relationships - that's what mattered to them and it intrigued me.
October 3, 2013 at 2:59 pm
The last time I was unemployed and interviewing I came in and was introduced to a man who asked three questions. He then said "let me go check something it should only be 10-15 minutes". He left.
I sat in his office and thought about the questions and what he had said so far and waited. About 20 minutes later he returned and told me that he was not interested in hiring me for the job I was interviewing for but he had another job in mind and he immediately made me an offer for the other job. I told him that I would get back to him by the close of business the next day and left. This was after only three questions.
I called just after noon the next day asked if the offer was still good and took the job. It was one of the best jobs I ever had.
He did not leave as a test, but left to talk with the HR department to see how he could hire me quickly and into a pure development position. He worked in out in 15 minutes or so. The rest is history.
🙂
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
October 3, 2013 at 4:53 pm
Miles, it's nice to hear a good story to balance us out - not every interview/date goes bad:-)
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