October 7, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Hi all,
Perhaps all of you from time to time encountered a problem, when a recruting agent asks you about your current salary, but you don't want to give an answer. Particularly, as for me, I want to know first how much the posision is going to offer.
So how to nicely refuse it? What would be best diplomatically shaped phrase for this ?
Thanks
October 7, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I'm not interested in discussing past work, I'm interested in discussing this position. My salary history should have little to do with proposed compensation for the opportunity we're discussing.
Edit:
Alternative: $1 million/hour... but I realize that most companies can't afford that. What are these folks willing to offer for what they want done? (Make a joke out of it but be obvious you won't answer)
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October 7, 2011 at 5:18 pm
SQL Guy 1 (10/7/2011)
Hi all,Perhaps all of you from time to time encountered a problem, when a recruting agent asks you about your current salary, but you don't want to give an answer. Particularly, as for me, I want to know first how much the posision is going to offer.
So how to nicely refuse it? What would be best diplomatically shaped phrase for this ?
Thanks
I would just tell him an amount that you want to earn. Even if you are only making $80,000 now, tell him you are making $95,000 and very happy at your current position. Let the recruiter know that it would take a raise to make you consider moving. It doesn't matter if you are actually miserable and desperate to leave your current employer. You still tell the recruiter that you are happy/satisfied and it would take a raise to get you to move. You have to make them want you. Employers always want what they cannot have. They want to hire you (employed) instead of the unemployed techie who is desperate.
There is no obligation to be accurate on issues related to money. When you are negotiating over money, it is about strategy.
Be honest about your jobs, time of employement, degrees, certifications, etc. Those are all resume issues and you can be fired for lying.
When it comes to money, anything goes in terms of negotiating strategy.
Information technology unemployment is below the national average for unemployment. The way my phone/email is running with recruiters, I suspect there is full employment for any SQL Server DBA with 5+ years of experience. Anyone with that level of experience should be able to get $90,000+ in this market.
Just my opinion. Maybe some areas of the USA are different.
October 7, 2011 at 5:33 pm
I tell them what I want to make. The job should pay what the job's worth for the most part. Some wiggle room for experience, but I wouldn't hire a senior DBA and pay them what I'd pay a junior person because they had less experience. I'd hire them as a junior DBA then, and pay them accordingly.
The recruiter doesn't need to know your salary, they need to know what jobs to send you, and salary is a filter. Give them the filter you want them to have.
October 7, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Besides all the other good suggestions you have gotten, I find the following to be useful in deflecting a specific salary.
It is not wages alone that counts, it a combination of paid vacation time, now and how much it increases with time on the job, what medical insurance is paid for, is their a retirement fund supported by the company matching the amount I put into it. Other perks such as a company cafeteria where the cost of lunch is partially or fully paid for by the company. To be contacted after hours, does the company supply and pay for a cell phone or other such device. Add in other items you think are of importance. In other words that age old SQL saying "It depends".
October 7, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Here are some other issues to consider. Are there tolls between where you live and your potential new employer.
That is an issue where I live. Tolls could be $7 per day if going to and from downtown. 250 working days per year makes that $1,750 per year.
Parking in downtown can be $200 per month or $2,400 per year.
It would add up to $4,150 per year. So it is my policy to not consider jobs that would cross those two issues unless the salary/raise justifies it.
Even then I might not because I hate sitting in traffic for 2 hours per day.My current job is 15 minutes each way, no tolls and free parking.
Those can be expensive issues.
It may not worth the expense to get there unless the raise justifies it.
As the previous poster mentioned, medical insurance plans widely vary and that could add up over the course of a year.
401k matching can be significant. Is it 4%? Is it 6%? Is it capped at an amount regardless of salary?
Cell phone should be provided or monthly reimbursement if you are using yours for on call emails and phone calls.
October 8, 2011 at 10:39 am
SQL Guy 1 (10/7/2011)
Hi all,Perhaps all of you from time to time encountered a problem, when a recruting agent asks you about your current salary, but you don't want to give an answer. Particularly, as for me, I want to know first how much the posision is going to offer.
So how to nicely refuse it? What would be best diplomatically shaped phrase for this ?
Thanks
Don't mess around with the mind games some recruiters play. Get right to the point. Here's my standard line...
Please understand that I'm not interested in lateral transfers... If I was, I wouldn't be looking. Please tell me what the salary range is for this job and we'll negotiate from there.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
October 14, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Great points from all,
I find myself in a similar situation. I don't really want to leave my company but I am not particularly happy there either, so I keep my ear out for new opportunities. I find often recruiters about 50/50 will ask this question. I have often found that I will lay down what I feel I should be making (I try to be as reasonable and conscientious to the market as possible) right up front as this will filter out right away if it will be the right fit or not as far as salary is concerned. I have made the mistake of not discussing salary until almost all the way to the end of the salary process only to be told the position pays a maximum of 25% less of what I make now. Better to get this out of the way up front than after wasting a lot of time 🙂
Not to derail this thread but, is it just me or are all jobs in the Seattle area contractor jobs now? Or do you have to actively seek the 'full time' employment opportunities?
Link to my blog http://notyelf.com/
October 15, 2011 at 4:47 pm
shannonjk (10/14/2011)
Not to derail this thread but, is it just me or are all jobs in the Seattle area contractor jobs now? Or do you have to actively seek the 'full time' employment opportunities?
There is a a lot of contract work around here obviously, especially with Microsoft luring so many consulting companies to Redmond feeding off of the project work. I get many emails inquiring about opportunities on projects that are multi-year. The consulting firms hire fulltime. I know many people that work years that way. It is not the typical 3-6 month contract work. The danger is if there is an economic downturn and Microsoft kills your project.
I only do fulltime gigs at this point in my life. Two kids, etc.
I have never had a problem and I get many emails inquiring with fulltime opportunities also.
I have worked in Florida and Seattle/Bellevue WA as a SQL Server DBA and developer.
The competition during interviews is certainly tougher around here (Florida was easy, no competition). There is certainly a Microsoft effect that contributes to it.
You better be strong in the tech interview because every company around here has ex-Microsoft techies ready to grill you.
October 20, 2011 at 12:10 pm
I would be careful about lying when you tell them your salary. This bit me in the *** recently because I found that some employers are now requiring salary validation. I fibbed a bit to the recruiter about how much I was making and then when I filled out their job application they wanted the exact number and said they would verify by requesting pay stubs. I didn't actually go any farther with this company as when I read the application it had some very fishy stuff in it about how they would verify things and what they would allow... so, maybe they were just a shady company.
When the recruiters asked me about salary I didn't tell them exactly how much I was making most of the time. I would give them a range. And if they questioned why I gave them a range, I said it depended on bonuses and things. So, this gave me a little more flexibility when it came time to say how much I wanted from a new position.
October 20, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Jeff Moden (10/8/2011)
SQL Guy 1 (10/7/2011)
Hi all,Perhaps all of you from time to time encountered a problem, when a recruting agent asks you about your current salary, but you don't want to give an answer. Particularly, as for me, I want to know first how much the posision is going to offer.
So how to nicely refuse it? What would be best diplomatically shaped phrase for this ?
Thanks
Don't mess around with the mind games some recruiters play. Get right to the point. Here's my standard line...
Please understand that I'm not interested in lateral transfers... If I was, I wouldn't be looking. Please tell me what the salary range is for this job and we'll negotiate from there.
This goes well with the point I was going to make: if you do not want to answer the question, be clear about it. What you don't want to have happen is that the recruiter puts down your desired salary as your actual salary in whatever packet they send. This opens the door for "lying on the application", i.e. trouble when someone goes to actually check whatever you put in.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
October 20, 2011 at 12:33 pm
JamesMorrison (10/7/2011)
There is no obligation to be accurate on issues related to money. When you are negotiating over money, it is about strategy.Be honest about your jobs, time of employement, degrees, certifications, etc. Those are all resume issues and you can be fired for lying.
When it comes to money, anything goes in terms of negotiating strategy.
In my experience - the boilerplate employment language (about being truthful) covers ALL aspects of the application. There is no caveat that says "it's okay to exagerate/distort/mis-report" the salary history.
While I agree about the strategy aspect - I wouldn't misrepresent what I used to make, I would just refuse to answer.
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Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part...unless you're my manager...or a director and above...or a really loud-spoken end-user..All right - what was my emergency again?
October 20, 2011 at 1:54 pm
amy26 (10/20/2011)
I would be careful about lying when you tell them your salary. This bit me in the *** recently because I found that some employers are now requiring salary validation. I fibbed a bit to the recruiter about how much I was making and then when I filled out their job application they wanted the exact number and said they would verify by requesting pay stubs. I didn't actually go any farther with this company as when I read the application it had some very fishy stuff in it about how they would verify things and what they would allow... so, maybe they were just a shady company.When the recruiters asked me about salary I didn't tell them exactly how much I was making most of the time. I would give them a range. And if they questioned why I gave them a range, I said it depended on bonuses and things. So, this gave me a little more flexibility when it came time to say how much I wanted from a new position.
Salary validation is problem to me and potentially of shadyness.. What I WAS making has little bearing on what YOU should be paying me. Perhaps I was seriously underpaid at a previous job and the new salary is more in line, who knows, but either way its none of my new employers business. I'm not giving them a paystub for any reason. As well as the salary that is listed may not reflect the whole picture. Such as bonuses, re-imbursements for cell phones or internet or tolls or parking, etc.
I give ranges. Such as I'm willing to discuss numbers in the 90+ range. I don't want to hear about anything that starts with a 7.
While my name may not be anywhere near as well know as Paul Randal or any of the other greats, any prospective employer can look here at my comments and articles to see both temperment and skill as well as my published CodePlex projects. It certainly reduces the unknowns about a prospective employee. Regardless of the legality I can bet that about every employer googles future employees to see what is returned.
CEWII
January 5, 2012 at 5:10 am
when I was giving interviews in different companies, one thing I noticed that it was never an easy job to fool around an Hr because they have years of experience and Expert in screening a candidate. Employers always ask for previous salary otherwise your experience will not be counted. They will surely ask for previous salary slip, to crosscheck the information you have given.
My suggestion or answer to employer question would be like...
( I previously got 240000$ per annum, so I am expecting more than that)
or
(I am expecting a salary which reflects my credentials and expertise that i bring to the role)
January 5, 2012 at 6:15 am
Actually, my best advice is that most employers want a DBA that knows the job and can make decisions. Part of knowing the job is what the current industry will bear and how you personally stack up to the rest of the industry. You should also know how much salary it will take to keep you happy for the next 5 years.
Do your homework and come prepared with a number.
So far as providing previous payslips go, my answer is that I think that's highly inappropriate and that my success at the interview (and reference checks they may do) should be an indication as to what I should be paid. If they press the issue, it might not be a company that I'd want to work for, anyway.
You're simply not going to hit the lottery by not having a number in mind nor holding such a number back.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
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