October 27, 2011 at 10:50 am
OK, I walked into an environment where with the following....
The SQL DBA Does not install the OS.
The SQL DBA Does not Install SQL Server. :crazy:
The SQL SBA Does not patch the server. :crazy:
Except for the first one, *If* it's a virtual server, the OS will most likely be on there already because of template deployment of a VM. No biggie.
Now to me the rest is all BS.
In my professional opinion, if the "SQL Server Administrator" doesn't have 100% control of the server 100% of the time starting from ground zero and have to rely on a non SQL person on the server for other stuff then there's potential for finger pointing. Regardless of what happens when something makes the DB's unavailable (say windows freezes) the "SQL Server Administrator" get's the bad wrap for it. IMHO, nobody other than the "SQL Server Administrator" should be on that box (VM).
What's everyone's take on this?
Am I wrong? Right? :discuss:
EDIT:
The "SQL Server Administrator" does have full local Administrator rights on the server. I forgot to mention that.
October 27, 2011 at 10:53 am
Warren Peace (10/27/2011)
OK, I walked into an environment where with the following....The SQL DBA Does not install the OS.
The SQL DBA Does not Install SQL Server. :crazy:
The SQL SBA Does not patch the server. :crazy:
Except for the first one, *If* it's a virtual server, the OS will most likely be on there already because of template deployment of a VM. No biggie.
Now to me the rest is all BS.
In my professional opinion, if the "SQL Server Administrator" doesn't have 100% control of the server 100% of the time starting from ground zero and have to rely on a non SQL person on the server for other stuff then there's potential for finger pointing. Regardless of what happens when something makes the DB's unavailable (say windows freezes) the "SQL Server Administrator" get's the bad wrap for it. IMHO, nobody other than the "SQL Server Administrator" should be on that box (VM).
What's everyone's take on this?
Am I wrong? Right? :discuss:
Well... I think 1 is ok. I don't want to touch the OS, however, I should be able to configure it afterward and partition the drives as needed. The other 2 are BS 🙂
Thanks,
Jared
EDIT: I meant I don't want to touch the INSTALL of the OS.
Jared
CE - Microsoft
October 27, 2011 at 11:10 am
That's pretty much how things were at the bank. Separation of responsibilities and all that, the DBAs didn't have local admin on the servers, which really limits the ability to install software.
No big deal, the sysadmins get a doc telling them exactly what settings need to be used in the setups and they're the ones working on the weekend to install patches.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
October 27, 2011 at 11:22 am
What was the reason for the SQL Server Admin to be locked out? Seems rather counter productive. If you're going to be in charge of all that "Sensitive Data" why lock you out?
Just curious.
If server security and securing data is job one, then I would think locking everyone out EXCEPT the SQL Server Admin would be the goal. Pulling "Domain Admins" out of the local administrators group being the second step after making sure the local admin group doesn't have sa rights.
October 27, 2011 at 11:23 am
This is a large organization, isn't it?
Personally I'm comfortable with letting Sysadmins to take care of the platform all the way to the O/S level.
In regards to RDBMS installation and patching I have had the oportunity to work in both models - both work fine if processes are properly documented and followed.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.October 27, 2011 at 11:35 am
PaulB-TheOneAndOnly (10/27/2011)
This is a large organization, isn't it?
Yes, over 5000 employees and over 50 SQL Servers (not counting the ones I already manage.) and some clusters in an "Undisclosable Government Agency"......lol. 😎
I have worked in both types of environments as well. I found that where the SQL Server Admin is the sole entity in charge, things go much more event free.
In the environment where the SQL Server Admin is not the sole entity, that's the environment where I got the phone call on the patch weekend while i am on the riverside with a "FISH ON!" saying the server came up but SQL did not.
October 27, 2011 at 11:38 am
Previous previous employer, network services handled the servers and installation of the OS and OS patches. I installed SQL Server and applied the service packs when released.
Worked well.
October 27, 2011 at 11:40 am
Well... in a fifty serves environment is reasonable to have a well established division of responsibilities.
Weekend pages are part of our job or as one of my bosses used to say "suck it up, you asked for this job" 😀
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.October 27, 2011 at 11:46 am
PaulB-TheOneAndOnly (10/27/2011)
Well... in a fifty serves environment is reasonable to have a well established division of responsibilities.Weekend pages are part of our job or as one of my bosses used to say "suck it up, you asked for this job" 😀
Duly Noted!!! 😉
However, if an outage can be avoided then the better we look.
What I didn't mention is there are more than just me. So it's not like i'm playing God or anything. There's a team of us "SQL Server Administrators", aka "DBA's
October 27, 2011 at 11:58 am
Warren Peace (10/27/2011)
PaulB-TheOneAndOnly (10/27/2011)
Well... in a fifty serves environment is reasonable to have a well established division of responsibilities.Weekend pages are part of our job or as one of my bosses used to say "suck it up, you asked for this job" 😀
Duly Noted!!! 😉
However, if an outage can be avoided then the better we look.
What I didn't mention is there are more than just me. So it's not like i'm playing God or anything. There's a team of us "SQL Server Administrators", aka "DBA's
You are correct, nobody wants an outage.
To avoid or minimize the outage situation, when working on divided responsibilities environment we used to coordinate maintenance windows with Sysadmin meaning that a DBA was assigned to be at least on standby - if environment was critical a bridge call was to be opened and assigned DBA had to be online. Even if Sysadmin is driving the maintenance window DBA remains responsible for databases.
_____________________________________
Pablo (Paul) Berzukov
Author of Understanding Database Administration available at Amazon and other bookstores.
Disclaimer: Advice is provided to the best of my knowledge but no implicit or explicit warranties are provided. Since the advisor explicitly encourages testing any and all suggestions on a test non-production environment advisor should not held liable or responsible for any actions taken based on the given advice.October 27, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Warren Peace (10/27/2011)
PaulB-TheOneAndOnly (10/27/2011)
Well... in a fifty serves environment is reasonable to have a well established division of responsibilities.Weekend pages are part of our job or as one of my bosses used to say "suck it up, you asked for this job" 😀
Duly Noted!!! 😉
However, if an outage can be avoided then the better we look.
What I didn't mention is there are more than just me. So it's not like i'm playing God or anything. There's a team of us "SQL Server Administrators", aka "DBA's
Do you want to be alerted, or tasked with setting up alerts, for overheating, RAID failures, power outages, and all of the other OPs things? Of course you want to know about it, but not necessarily called at 3am to troubleshoot it. If it is a hardware or OS problem I don't want to be woken up and I don't want the responsibility of why something went wrong or how long it took to fix.
Jared
Jared
CE - Microsoft
October 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm
In 11 years of DBAing, I've only ever been the server admin also once.
Had admin rights at the OS level? Yeah. Usually, even.
Been responsible for applying Windows patches, driver updates, A/V updates, firewall rules, et al? Nope.
Been responsible for testing those exact things in a test server before the admins deploy them to production? Hell yes!
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
October 28, 2011 at 2:35 am
In all of my professional experience, we as DBA's have always been given a blank bit of tin, we install the OS, SQL, patches etc.
The only exception to this is for VM's and blades which are controlled by templates and the blade chassis having the os ready to boot from the SAN to the blade.
But even with the exceptions, the template is just a basic NEXT NEXT NEXT of the OS so its pretty much blank, we then do in and change the config to what we want it to be.
But it is swings and roundabouts, sometimes the server team is busy so we do the VM deployment, blade deployment etc, other times we as DBA's are busy to the server team install SQL, we have a strict install policy document which needs to be followed and when the server has been installed and is ready to go into the environment it is given the once over by a DBA to ensure all is good, if not it gets destroyed and started again.
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