February 20, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Hi guys, need some advice:
I'm completely new to databases and my goal is to learn SQL Server 2008. I do find this area of IT very interesting, I just need to figure out how to go about it. I have a copy of SQL Server 2008 Developers Edition. At this point I do not even know how to design a simple 3 table database with a couple of relationships and the right forms, queries etc.
Can I use say a book like "SQL Server 2008 from novice to professional" to learn SQL Server 2008 and basic database administration simultaneously? Or does learning SQL Server 2008 require you to know database administration, and what are tables, forms, types of relationships, how to make relationships etc ? And if indeed SQL server 2008 requires preliminary knowledge, what platform do I use to practice this knowledge? Maybe acquire a working knowledge of MS Access first?
I wouldn't mind hearing some stories of how some of you got into databases and worked your way up. Thanks a bunch.
February 21, 2010 at 3:16 am
When you talk about tables, relationships, etc you are referring to relational modeling which are used in OLTP Databases (Transactional).
All relational Databases are based in the same concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_model
http://www.siue.edu/~dbock/cmis450/6-relationalmodel.htm
The other type of Data Model is the Dimensional Database which is used for Data Warehouses (Business Intelligence BI):
As far as learning SQL Server 2008, there are three tracks (since SQL Server 2005):
1) Database Administration
2) Database Developer
3) Business Intelligence
You may want to check out Amazon.com, query SQL Server 2008 and read the reviews.
Make note of the reviews and then check out the major Book Stores. You can query their inventory top see what they have in stock. This will allow you to make you own judgement.
Amazon is much cheaper than any of the Book Stores.
If you buy a Microsoft Press Book for certification you get an 180 Day Enterprise Evaluation and a 15% discount on the Exam.
I also like many of the Sybex Books, but that is a matter of personal preference.
I hope this helps. 🙂
For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/
For better answers on performance questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/
February 22, 2010 at 9:39 am
If you want to practice, I'd suggest downloading something like SQL Server Express (which I believe is a free version, if I'm not mistaken). You should be able to safely load it onto your PC and "play" around with it without having to worry about blowing up any production systems! 🙂 I think it includes the Northwind database (someone correct me if I'm wrong), which is commonly used to build testing environments, and would probably be ideal for you to practice.
I, personally, am a baseball nut, so I downloaded data from this website[/url] and used those stats to practice.
Also, make sure you load Books Online (commonly abbreviated on these forums as "BOL" -- it comes standard with SQL Server). In fact, when I start SQL Server, the first thing I do is start BOL along with it. I constantly refer to it whenever I come up with any questions.
Granted, that provides you an environment with which you can "play." However, learning how to deal with relational tables is an entire learning topic in and of itself (you can use your "sandbox" environment to play around with that). I'm not sure what resources you can use to learn that; maybe someone else reading this can point you in the right direction.
And keep posting to these forums; you'll learn a lot from them.
Hope this helps! Good luck!
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February 22, 2010 at 1:41 pm
I just came back and re-read your original post. Apparently I completely overlooked your sentence that said you had SQL 2008 Developer's Edition. So you can ignore my advice about downloading SQL Server Express. I gotta stop skimming posts!!!
However, I do still stand by my advice of practice tables and BOL!
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February 22, 2010 at 6:57 pm
@Welsh, thanks for the reply. After being involved with SQL, Access for some time I've realized I'm more interested in the development side.
For those who might find themselves in the position I am in, let me share what's worked for me so far: Currently I'm reading "Inside relational databases: Examples with Access" by Mark Whitehorn, Bill Marklyn...a kind user on these forums recommended it to me, and it is an excellent book on relational databases. Access is used only to demonstrate the concepts discussed, it is not a book on how to use Access. And their choice of Access seems pretty smart, since Access is much easier to play around with, and less overwhelming than SQL to a newbie. I personally would recommend this to somebody who is new to Databases and wants to get into SQL Server eventually. To supplement your learning, you can get "Access 2007: The Missing Manual" by Matthew McDonald, which puts your relational concepts into practice in Access 2007.
What the above does, is it gives you some familiarity with database concepts, the way a database works and terms. This way, when you move into SQL Server 2008, you will be less overwhelmed. This is what I felt: After going through DB Concepts/Access for a brief period, I feel it's easier to grasp SQL Server 2008. Going through the material in these books is a matter of a couple of weeks for the dedicated enthusiast.
For guiding me through my SQL Developers Edition, I currently have the book "SQL Server 2008: From Novice to Professional" by Robin Dewson as well as SQL Server 2008 Step by Step by Mike Hotek. Another great book.
Plus I've made it a point to seek out resources on the net as the need arises...I find that places like SQL Server Central are key to learning and some of my most important discoveries have been on these forums.
For those more experienced and well read, any comments on the above are appreciated.
February 22, 2010 at 7:03 pm
@ray K : Thanks for your input. Yep I bought Developers Edition on recommendation from a user on these forums. The 64 bit only version (or 32-bit only version also) costs $25 on Evaluesoftware.com. Apparently there are some differences between Express Edition and Developers, (Developers is apparently exactly like the enterprise edition minus the ability to run production) - but more experience users are in a better position to comment on how right I am about that.
BOL seems to be a pretty intense resource, but you know, as a newbie, I found it to be more like a technical manual than an explanatory textbook. Made a mental note about BOL - hopefully when I'm more familiar with Server 2008 I can use it as a reference.
And yes at some point I will need practice databases, so if you know of any other than Northwind, let me know. I've been hunting for practice databases in Access, and playing with different db schema is what really drills concepts into you.
In case you're skimming this post here's a reminder to read more closely. Please acknowledge if you read this line ....
😉
And I agree about the forums like this one....the information here is priceless....
February 23, 2010 at 7:12 am
like2innovate (2/22/2010)
In case you're skimming this post here's a reminder to read more closely. Please acknowledge if you read this line ....😉
Acknowledged! 🙂
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February 23, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Hi like2innovate,
As far as books go, I definitely recommend "Microsoft SQL Server 2008 T-SQL Fundamentals" by Itzik Ben-Gan. You'll need to understand how to write - and at the very least read and understand - SQL, and although it might seem daunting at first glance, you wouldn't believe how easy the basics are once you grasp them (and Ben-Gan does a fine job explaining them).
I'm 2/3's of the way through and have found it an invaluable resource - I now write SQL directly with fair confidence rather than resorting to GUIs. In just over a week, my copy's now got so many dog-eared pages it looks like I've had it for years and got bored before the end... 😀
You won't find it explains database design and normalisation as fully as other books (and that's not its remit), but for learning the language its excellent.
Cheers,
RF
_____________________________________________________________
MAXIM 106:
"To know things well, we must know the details; and as they are almost infinite, our knowledge is always superficial and imperfect."
Francois De La Rochefoucauld (1613-1680)
February 23, 2010 at 4:50 pm
like2innovate (2/22/2010)
BOL seems to be a pretty intense resource, but you know, as a newbie, I found it to be more like a technical manual than an explanatory textbook. Made a mental note about BOL - hopefully when I'm more familiar with Server 2008 I can use it as a reference.
Seconded - BOL can seem intense as a beginner, but once things start slotting into place and you understand how SQL Server works, you won't believe how regularly you'll be using it. I think in work tomorrow I'll begin copying what Ray K does and load it up as soon as I log on...
With your attitude and self-motivation I can't see you having many problems that you can't overcome with a little bit of determination, and for those you can't, well you've got the folks here. Oh, and be sure to make the most of those "gotcha" moments - you know, when something you've previously been unable to grasp suddenly becomes clear as daylight. You'll have a few of those and they're a fantastic feeling when you're learning. 🙂
_____________________________________________________________
MAXIM 106:
"To know things well, we must know the details; and as they are almost infinite, our knowledge is always superficial and imperfect."
Francois De La Rochefoucauld (1613-1680)
February 24, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Not to throw more fruit into the fire (oh, that old cliché again), but I've had good luck with the Wrox beginner's series, namely the books, Beginning T-SQL with MSSQL 2005 & 2008," "Beginning MSSQL Server 2008 Programming" and "Beginning SQL Server 2008 Administration." They require wads of reading, but you'll come out with a solid understanding. Unfortunately they do come with a price tag, but Amazon or an online discount seller can chop off some bucks.
Ed Womack
Get Milked
February 24, 2010 at 6:02 pm
Here my story about DB...
Two years ago, I have been told by my boss that I have to create a database and maintain it. The boss knew nothing about DB, he had no idea how big it might get, nobody at work knew about SQL server and there was no big money to go on courses. I knew nothing about DB, not even MS access. One day, I met an Oracle guy and he told me that it might be a good idea to start with SQL server express. So, I made my boss paying for two e-learning course on Microsoft site. At that time, it was for SQL server 2005, but here the equivalent for 2008:
Collection 6369: Implementing and Maintaining Microsoft SQL Server 2008
Collection 2778: Querying and Modifying Data in Microsoft SQL Server 2008 with Transact-SQL
Then, I started to create the DB, had some #$%@? moments.
I bought some books... I think they are all good, depending on what you want to learn (development, admin or services) and where you are in your "knowledge path"...
I liked Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Step by Step
by Mike Hotek
Microsoft Press © 2009 (544 pages) Citation
ISBN:9780735626041
and still using it.
I am not ashame to tell that I also used a "For Dummies" one
Microsoft SQL Server 2008 All-In-One Desk Reference For Dummies
by Robert D. Schneider and Darril Gibson
John Wiley & Sons © 2008 (768 pages) Citation
ISBN:9780470179543
(but for 2005)
Perseverance, reading and reading and reading... forums at SQL ServerCentral.com and books!
There is no other recipe if you don't have someone else to teach you
🙂
February 24, 2010 at 7:28 pm
I agree with the approach that was suggested in the previous post.
The Step by Step Book provides a great Introduction to SQL Server.
If you want the the SQL Server 2008 Enterprise Edition Evaluation then you have to purchase a Microsoft Training Kit Book for an Exam.
In my opinion having the Enterprise Edition would be helpful because you can practice and you are not limited in what you can do. You also get a 15% Discount for a Microsoft Exam.
In my opion it is helpful to have an introductory book before you take on the concepts presented in the 70-488 Book.
Listed below are the Links to the Step By Step Book mentioned in the previos Post and the BI Exam Book that was mentioned in a previous post.
Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Step by Step (Step by Step (Microsoft)) (Paperback)
MCTS Self-Paced Training Kit (Exam 70-448): Microsoft SQL Server 2008-Business Intelligence Development and Maintenance
Good luck!
For better, quicker answers on T-SQL questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/Best+Practices/61537/
For better answers on performance questions, click on the following...
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/SQLServerCentral/66909/
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