January 8, 2010 at 6:25 am
I see many of you sees using dumps as cheating and maybe it is but to stay on the bandwagon I use the following procedure when taking an exam.
1) Create virtual machines with DC+ 2xSQL Servers (and possibly a cluster).
2) Go through MS Press book and do the labs.
3) Read "practice exams" 1 week
4) Take test
I guess there are different views here. If you're a senior consultant it's not fun to have a certification that you don't know anything about. If your a junior everyone expects you to learn as you go and certifications are primary training.
I agree however in the cheating argument if someone just read the practice exams and don't read the stuff you're supposed to learn.
For people with familiy obligations it's just too demanding with busy work, get children from school/kindergarden and start reading at 9 pm. I aim to see my kids awake 2 hrs a day which is my first priority. When your single or without children it's ok to spend so much time since I have done this myself, but when you have years of experience and just want to document the new features then I think this is an ok way to pass.
I enjoy this way of doing it and go to TechNet conference once every 3 years to get some inspiration. But why do Microsoft promote Selftest software? Isn't this to beef up the number certifieds?
January 8, 2010 at 6:43 am
There is a difference between the self-test software and brain dumps. The companies that build selft-test software build their own sets of questions that mimic what you may see when taking the actual Microsoft Exam. Brain dumps, on the other hand, are normally provided by people that have taken the tests and are providing the actual questions and answers that they encountered. It is the Brain Dumps that many of us take exception to people using.
January 8, 2010 at 9:38 am
Brain dumps are cheating. They are actual questions, taken from the exam (in violation of the NDA that candidates must accept) and posted online. Hence, when you look at brain dumps, you are looking at the actual questions that you may well get in the exam. It's not just some of us here that see them as cheating. Microsoft does as well and using braindumps to pass an exam can, if you are caught, result in all of your certifications been revoked permanently.
The self-test software that MS promotes (and there are a number of companies who do them) are not brain dumps. They are questions that the company making the self-test software comes up with. They are meant to give you a feel for what the exam questions will be like, but they are not questions from the exam.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 8, 2010 at 9:44 am
"The companies that build selft-test software build their own sets of questions that mimic what you may see when taking the actual Microsoft Exam."
How close is "mimic" to the others then :Whistling: ? So your sure that MeasureUp and Selftest.. are any moralistically better (with MS' blessing).
Let's take MeasureUp. Taken from today's website
Questions: 160 Includes 9 simulations. Note: Practice Test Simulation may not work properly in Download mode using VISTA. If using VISTA, please choose online mode delivery for optimum performance.
.
What do you think simulations do?
- Something similar (bad bad)
- Something very close (ummm ok)
- Something totally different (pure and acceptable)
See my point? I have used MeasureUp myself after seing link om MS page and can't really tell the difference. Even SelfTest software has "Guaranteed pass".
I think MS (and the other vendors) turns it's blind eye to this topic maybe called the "Red Light District" of certification. Not sure how they could do more efficient but the line between "similar", "very close" is just playing with words.
Any other has an idea about the "purity" of how to take an exam without being morally retarded...
January 8, 2010 at 9:44 am
runaldo (1/8/2010)
For people with familiy obligations it's just too demanding with busy work, get children from school/kindergarden and start reading at 9 pm. I aim to see my kids awake 2 hrs a day which is my first priority. When your single or without children it's ok to spend so much time since I have done this myself, but when you have years of experience and just want to document the new features then I think this is an ok way to pass.
So cheating is acceptable when you don't have much free time? Try that excuse out at a university, see how far it gets you.
Cheating is cheating, regardless of why it is done. If those 'practice exams' that you are using are brain dumps (and many of the online free resources are) then you are cheating and, if the Microsoft Exam Fraud people discover that you will lose your certifications.
Very few people do have lots of time to study. It's a simple matter of prioritisation, if you want the certification, think it'll take 80 hours of studying and you only have one hour a day then either study for 3 months and write the exam or change where you allocate time so that you have a bit more free and get the cert faster.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 8, 2010 at 9:48 am
runaldo (1/8/2010)
How close is "mimic" to the others then :Whistling: ? So your sure that MeasureUp and Selftest.. are any moralistically better (with MS' blessing).
Same style of questions, based on MS's list of skills measured in the exam. They are not the same as the questions from the exam, they are not questions from the exam with words changed.
I've used one of the self-test exams before (one of the ones you mentioned) and then written the actual exam. Completely different questions, different feel, different level of detail, etc. There was no chance of mistaking the self-test suite's questions for actual questions.
The simulations are exactly that, they give you a simulation of (for example) management studio and ask you to perform a task. That's all it is.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 8, 2010 at 9:51 am
Not working for MeasureUp or any other vendor of practice test software I can only make the following assumption, they work with Microsoft to vet the questions and answers they use so that they don't provide questions that exactly match the questions that may appear while you are taking the MS Certification test. Questions/answers may be similar but still be different in presentation and which of the multiple answers is correct.
January 8, 2010 at 10:03 am
Let's put it this way. You cannot simply memorise the self-test questions and answers and hope to pass the exam. With brain dumps, that's exactly the point of them. You can memorise them, with their answers and pass the exam because the questions that you memorise are questions that you will get.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 8, 2010 at 10:07 am
With brain dumps, you're studying strickly to pass the exam, not to become more knowledgeable on that subject. This leads to being to talk the talk, but not able to walk the walk.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
January 8, 2010 at 10:16 am
I don't have an excuse for little time. I just can't see the difference between "very similar". Please answer this question. I seem to have gotten into a sweetspot here.... Gail estimates about 80 hrs and thats about the time I use I guess.
Ok - first I would like to have MS Certified "test engines" with a clear validation of who creates the non-cheatable questions - like any other partner - gold certified or not. I would also like to know that none of those actually creating the test questions is not allowed to make a buc or two extra to create something "similar" for the 3rd parties.
What I want from all of the purest... do you think its ok with MeasureUp and similar companies and why?
Shouldn't MS disallow these companies from producing "similar" questions and only allow for it's own?
I believe to sort things out in the business MS should remove from participating with ANY of these companies to avoid any misunderstandings. In addition - on the test centers there should be a qualified (trainer or something) to marshall practices (VPC is so easy these days) and confirm if answer is correct or not.
I don't think it will happen because the number of certified people will drop dratically and marketing can't strike the customer with "there are X-thousand certified engineers to help you".
How do you think MS and other vendors should go about it?
Any idea of what company/website has "acceptable" practice questions(maybe not use the word "dumps" again)
January 8, 2010 at 10:49 am
runaldo (1/8/2010)
Gail estimates about 80 hrs and thats about the time I use I guess.
No. I pulled that number out of thin air. What I said was "If you [removed] think it'll take 80 hours of studying."
I certainly don't study 80 hours for certs. Didn't even bother to study at all for the last two I wrote.
Ok - first I would like to have MS Certified "test engines" with a clear validation of who creates the non-cheatable questions - like any other partner - gold certified or not.
You mean the (already existing) Microsoft Certified Practice Test Providers?
From the MS website:
Many companies sell practice tests, but Microsoft Certified Practice Test Providers (PTPs) offer the highest quality of products and services. Microsoft performs quality reviews on all PTP practice tests, and only approved PTPs bear the Microsoft Certified Practice Test Provider logo.
So the 3rd party company creates the questions and Microsoft Learning reviews them to make sure they're of acceptable quality, accuracy, etc.
In addition - on the test centers there should be a qualified (trainer or something) to marshall practices (VPC is so easy these days) and confirm if answer is correct or not.
What do you mean by "marshall practices"? The exams are all electronic, administered by a 3rd party company (Prometric). When writing, you don't know, even at the end, if you answered right or wrong for any question.
Any idea of what company/website has "acceptable" practice questions(maybe not use the word "dumps" again)
I'd go with the ones that Microsoft recommends. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/exam.aspx#tab2
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 8, 2010 at 11:12 am
Braindumps are "bad" because you are not being tested. The person who took
the test and provided the "correct(?)" answers was tested, then passes the
answers on to you. Test simulations (Transcender, Measure-up, etc) do
provide a similar experience..no different than practice SAT tests, for
college entrance or questions at the end of a chapter in your manual...but
not the current test or current answers.
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t26928-re-brain-dumps.html
Ok so dump is bad and simulations is the best word/preparation to use. But how do we find the proper vendors? Anyone have a MS list on this on qualified vendors?
January 8, 2010 at 11:16 am
No. I pulled that number out of thin air. What I said was "If you [removed] think it'll take 80 hours of studying." I certainly don't study 80 hours for certs. Didn't even bother to study at all for the last two I wrote.
Don't you get carried away by exploring new features? E.g. clustering and replication scenarios? This is where time flies... do you just read without testing the features?
January 8, 2010 at 1:14 pm
runaldo (1/8/2010)
Anyone have a MS list on this on qualified vendors?
See my previous post, specifically the point about the Microsoft Certified Practice Test Providers and the link at the bottom.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
January 8, 2010 at 1:16 pm
runaldo (1/8/2010)
do you just read without testing the features?
Lol. I said I didn't bother studying for the last two certs. That's because I fiddle and test all the time, not just to write and pass exams.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
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