July 8, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item What's an MVP?
July 8, 2008 at 11:54 pm
I spoke with the South African MVP lead back in March on this topic. He said that in his opinion (not an official MS statement) the most important quality is passion.
If a person is passionate about something then they are going to put in the time and effort to improve their skills and widen their knowledge and they are going to share that passion and knowledge with others (whether those others want it or not)
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 9, 2008 at 3:46 am
"I am sure that quite a few people would try to game the system in order to get the award for a year and all the benefits that come along with it."
What are "all the benefits that come along with it"?
July 9, 2008 at 4:46 am
umailedit (7/9/2008)
What are "all the benefits that come along with it"?
The prestige of the title for one and the industry recognition that comes with it. I'd consider that one of the major benefits. Especially when you know that the number of MVPs worldwide is capped at 4000
Free software, invitation to the MVP summit at in Redmond every year, ... there's more.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 9, 2008 at 7:05 am
MVP has been a huge success for MS and I'm not sure there's any reason for them to change any part of the program from their perspective.
From my perspective I can think of a few changes they could make that would add value to the community:
- Publish a little better set of guidelines on what they are looking for
- Set term limits. As a suggestion I'd say you can be an MVP for 2 years, then you're automatically out for a year. This would allow for more 'new blood' in the program and insure that they are hearing opinions from more than the same set of MVP's year after year after
- Include in the MVP Bio why they were selected, something beyond 'passion'
As far as the guidelines, I'm not privy to them but if you were to research the SQL MVP's you'd find that they fall into a few categories:
- Well known authors. Get published!
- PASS volunteers
- Strong community participants in either user groups or online discussion
- Other
Passion probably describes those well and it's subjective by nature, but it would be nice to know that you've got a chance to get in the game if you write x articles, do y forum posts, or speak at z user group events.
The downside to the MVP is that it's a club, once in no one wants to leave. That in turn could lead to them singing the MS song a bit louder than they might otherwise. Cynical? Perhaps!
July 9, 2008 at 9:41 am
As a DBA who manages on different platforms and databases than just SQL Server, the downside I see is that anytime I see a quote from anyone tagged as a Microsoft MVP, I almost reflexively (and probably unfairly) categorize it as "Uh-oh, someone blessed and anointed by Microsoft. I'm sure they are only parroting the party line." I guess the fear is that they can no longer be safely considered to be an independent voice.
But the sheer low number automatically makes it a great honor. Congratulations.
July 9, 2008 at 9:41 am
I've know a few MVP's and have come to the conclusion that these are advocates, users, promoters, and extenders of MS technologies. They might be specialists in one area or many and are very good at what they do. Their knowledge of the product(s) are very deep and authors and speakers are prime targets for membership.
It is not really a club of buddies etc, but an association of highly skilled technical professionals.
One of the bennies that comes from MVP is that they are kept more up to speed on many things. This might be an advantage but also for MS's benefit the MVP may update their book, white papers or training classes earlier to assist MS in early adoption of products.
It works both ways and is a good program for all.
Congratulations Steve, you deserve the recognition for all the work and effort. Very well done sir!:exclamationmark:
Miles...
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
July 9, 2008 at 9:54 am
A sports MVP knows how to get one... serve the team and go the extra mile. Should be no different for SQL Server or any of the other categories open for MVP except it's "serve the public" and "the trade" which is the extended team. Shouldn't have to tell anyone how to do that whether it's their job... or not. No one had to tell Steve Jones or any of the recent MVP's on SQL Server Central how to serve the public. And, although some MVP's are looked at as carrying on the Microsoft Party line, I've seen several and personally know a couple of MVP's (1 in particular :hehe:) that have been known to strongly disagree with some areas that Microsoft has done.
In my eyes, MVP is not about party lines or product... it's about quality service to the "community" at large.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
July 9, 2008 at 10:18 am
It is a huge honor. The bad thing is now people think I should know everything there is to know about SQL Server. Just like everyone else, I am learning new things every day! What it actually is for, is not knowing everything, but sharing what you know with the community. I hope that there are a lot of people out there who can write T-SQL better because they read some of my articles.
Aunt Kathi Data Platform MVP
Author of Expert T-SQL Window Functions
Simple-Talk Editor
July 9, 2008 at 10:21 am
Steve,
In your editorial you write, "I'm not sure why I was picked."
That's very humble. But as someone who has benefited from the SQL expertise that you and many others bring to this site, I can tell you that there are uncountable reasons why you were picked as an MVP. The service your site provides and the effort you put in to keeping the SQL Server community connected and informed are only two such reasons.
If they had not picked you for MVP status, then I'm not sure who would ever qualify. :w00t:
Congratulations, and thanks.
Best regards,
webrunner
-------------------
A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. He walks up to them and asks, "Can I join you?"
Ref.: http://tkyte.blogspot.com/2009/02/sql-joke.html
July 9, 2008 at 10:26 am
As an aside, the MVPs do not all agree. We have a private newsgroup and there can be some very passionate arguments about how to do things or what the best way to do them is.
Passion is the best way to describe what needs to be done. I don't know if following the MS line plays in, but I'm not sure I do that.
July 9, 2008 at 10:30 am
gravittl (7/9/2008)
As a DBA who manages on different platforms and databases than just SQL Server, the downside I see is that anytime I see a quote from anyone tagged as a Microsoft MVP, I almost reflexively (and probably unfairly) categorize it as "Uh-oh, someone blessed and anointed by Microsoft. I'm sure they are only parroting the party line." I guess the fear is that they can no longer be safely considered to be an independent voice.
This may be ignored as a biased comment, but I'll risk it...
The tag line for MVP is "Independent Experts, Real World Answers." There is no obligation or requirement to speak the company line and I've heard a few MVPs strongly and loudly disagreeing with things that MS has done.
If there's any bias it most likely comes from speciality. As an example, I'm highly unlikely to recommend the use of Oracle for anything. Reason is, I know almost nothing about it and cannot honestly recommend something that I don't understand.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
July 9, 2008 at 10:40 am
I'd be interested to hear comments from the MVP's on my suggestions for change posted above?
July 9, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I agree with the limits. It does seem to encourage the same people year after year, although I've seen some people dropped and new ones come on. It might encourage less competition, however, since people that were doing to be dropped might stop and new MVPs would get accepted with less effort.
There's definitely some prestige for those people that are MVPs for 6 years (or some other number). Quite a few of these people are very active in the community constantly.
Not sure I want to see more guidelines, but perhaps some comment on what things MSFT saw as most valuable over the last year.
July 9, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Not sure it would discourage competition. One part of that is no one quite knows the rules! The other part is that there is a fairly large chunk of MVP's - at least in SQL - that rarely change, so having it known that there's at least a chance I think might actually boost interest.
Would those six year plus MVP's stop participating in the community if they were out for a year? That could be good, let them recharge, or bad I guess if they only do it to retain their MVP status?
What about showing what the contributions that led to the award? Doesn't that benefit the MVP by showing the community Steve Jones wrote x editorials or answered so many questions, and where? Or that he organized a user group?
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