February 9, 2009 at 12:41 pm
My personal policy is to trust everyone I meet until I'm given a reason otherwise. Same for respect. I'm also a firm believer that people can and often do change for the better.
On the other hand, I have a concealed weapons license for my pistol, and made sure my wife has the same, I lock the doors on my apartment and my car, and I take measures to prevent loss of walet and cellphone when in public crowds.
There's a tremendous trend right now (and for about the last 50 years) towards not believing in consequences. Why that's come about is a big subject and way beyond the scope of a post in this forum. The end result is that there are a lot of people who are firmly convinced that any harm they do to others isn't "a big deal".
In Friday, Heinlein noted that one of the first signs of decay of a civilization is loss of respect and manners. Based on a lot of study of history, I have to agree with that conclusion.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
February 9, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Good policy, and I tend to do that as well. Seems naive at times, but I'd like to think most people are worthy of trust.
February 9, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I don't trust anyone at work anymore since I had been burnt too many times. I trusted someone and ended up that person stabbed me at the back!!!!
Especially at this time, people are more concerned about their job security, they tend not to share knowledge and unwilling to help out.
Maybe it is just happened to me.
February 9, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Dr John Stott
"Nearly all legislation has grown up because we simply cannot be trusted to settle our disputes with justice and without self-interest. A promise is not enough; we need a contract. Doors are not enough; we have to lock and bolt them. The payment of fares is not enough; tickets have to be issued, inspected and collected. Law and order are not enough; we need the police to enforce them. .... We cannot trust each other. We need protection against one another. It is a terrible indication of what human nature is really like."
David
@SQLTentmaker“He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose” - Jim Elliot
February 10, 2009 at 2:09 am
Unfortunately, the major banks in the world have been left alone, with very "light touch" regulation. A few years back we had the debacle with Auditors colluding with the companies they were supposed to be auditing.
And now we have banks going bankrupt (and costing ordinary taxpayers billions) because they were given autonomy and freedom. That freedom led to greed and crazy bonuses for taking crazy risks with investments. Auditing is far too little far too late.
Sorry, just proves yet again that many, many people cannot be trusted, and that means none of us can be trusted. Cheery thoughts.
Andy
February 10, 2009 at 4:27 am
Well, the flip side of the greed, was the presumed promise that the Federal Govt through Fannie and Freddie was going to be on the limb for the mandated lending policies. So yes, you can trust the banks to be "greedy", but they would not have been greedy without someone else being on the hook for the bad policies force on them. Does this help us understand that we are the guys writing the checks for government, good and bad?
I am not sure that more regulation would have exposed that banks were making bad loans. If the Fannie/Freddie promise was not there, and the banks would have been held liable for these loans, then the kickback would have been much stronger. Instead they were able to make their margins and resell the loans upstream to the Federally backed entities. So as much as some congressmen are dangling out the regulation bait, their role in things needs to be understood.
Trust is a hard thing. One one hand, you have lazy people that will do what is asked of them and only what is asked on them. You have people that are only looking for "advantages", then you have the people that honestly do care. For the first group, I make sure the instruction are as clear as possible and do the 'thinking' for them to specify what contingencies I need handled. For the second group, I have a personal problem dealing with them, but try to redirect them to what is needed. For the last group, just be there to help and point them where they can help the best.
I would agree Steve. For the most part the people I deal with are civil and well mannered. I do not think we are doomed yet, but there are increasing pressures on society to embrace belligerence and not think of others.
February 10, 2009 at 4:39 am
Greed is what I blame it on. If there weren't greedy people wanting to get something for nothing then we wouldn't have people/companies being sued (sp?) over the smallest incidents. If people didn't steel we wouldn't need to worry about being mugged, or having our homes violated.
If the bankers weren't greedy, wanting there big bonus's, giving people who can't afford credit credit but with silly interest rates, cos they know they will just make the interest payments.
If we could live without greed, we could trust each other again.
February 10, 2009 at 5:29 am
The lawyers and politicians need job security, so let's constantly create fear and a crisis...
I agree with the sentiment, trust / respect your fellow man until shown reasons not to. Personally, I have a hard time, that's not quite strong enough, with people that walk around saying "You have to EARN my respect". Bullshit. That's a major problem with today's society. EVERYONE deserves respect until they do/say something to LOSE it.
As far as trusting society at large... I guess my studies in jiu jitsu, and successful completion of LFI-4 are a good indication of how much I trust the common man.
Honor Super Omnia-
Jason Miller
February 10, 2009 at 6:32 am
Wow.
In your editorial, you stated " but as I reread the second paragraph it struck me that this person is upset with the apparent decline of western civilization. I think this person is the minority, or at least I hope so,"
Did I read this wrong, or are you really excited that "western civilization" is in decline? Please let me know, as I will be sure to unsubscribe if it is true. I really hope I just misinterpreted it, as I love the site, but can't support this philosophy.
February 10, 2009 at 6:36 am
GA Programmer (2/10/2009)
Wow.In your editorial, you stated " but as I reread the second paragraph it struck me that this person is upset with the apparent decline of western civilization. I think this person is the minority, or at least I hope so,"
Did I read this wrong, or are you really excited that "western civilization" is in decline? Please let me know, as I will be sure to unsubscribe if it is true. I really hope I just misinterpreted it, as I love the site, but can't support this philosophy.
I think he is saying he hopes that there aren't too many people around who think there is a decline in the western civilization.
February 10, 2009 at 6:41 am
Jason Miller - The lawyers and politicians need job security, so let's constantly create fear and a crisis...
If you haven't seen it, rent Bowling for Columbine, even if you take Michael Moore's rants with the knowledge that he's trying to make a point and playing his angle up, it's an interesting commentary on the culture of fear in the US media.
GSquared - In Friday, Heinlein noted that one of the first signs of decay of a civilization is loss of respect and manners. Based on a lot of study of history, I have to agree with that conclusion.
Couldn't agree more, if there is no respect and expectation of manners, then why act any way at all? I know that deep down, I'm capable of being as horrible as the next guy, but I don't act that way because people that I respect have expectations of me.
Do I distrust others? Sure. Why? Because I know that even though I'm behaving like a nice guy, I'm capable of stealing something, acting stupid, being cruel. Does that mean that I actively assume they are lying/cheating/stealing? No. But I take precautions to try and at least not be an easy mark.
I also shovel my neighbor's sidewalk, cut his grass every once in a while, etc.
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
February 10, 2009 at 7:17 am
"I think auditing is the best way to handle things, or rather, the best way to detect issues. Give people some autonomy, some freedom, and then when things do wrong, or there's an issue, catch it with auditing and then handle things administratively."
Help me to understand how one can say we have a problem with trusting people to do their jobs and at the same time saying we need to use auditing to make sure they are doing their jobs. It seems to fall into the "trust but verify" double-speak - if you trust the person to do their job you don't need to audit them, if you don't trust them the you need auditing.
February 10, 2009 at 7:21 am
In a manner of speaking, you mention process control. Our whole society is based on process control. Religion for the institutionalization of morals, laws codifying the rights and responsibilities of citizens into a reward-punishment scenario.
There are areas of freedom in this just as there are areas of freedom in work -- however, it is paramount that the rules and regulations are set forth and that people understand them and can follow them, especially before they learn what can kill them, injure others, or destroy a product.
In addition to that, one of the first rules I learned in programming was it is easier to fix it in design, rather than later -- a codified standard helps with this.
So, do I trust people. Yes, in many ways. Do I desire a framework of standards in which to work? Yes, even though I believe that a smaller set of rules is better.
February 10, 2009 at 7:21 am
merodach (2/10/2009)
"I think auditing is the best way to handle things, or rather, the best way to detect issues. Give people some autonomy, some freedom, and then when things do wrong, or there's an issue, catch it with auditing and then handle things administratively."Help me to understand how one can say we have a problem with trusting people to do their jobs and at the same time saying we need to use auditing to make sure they are doing their jobs. It seems to fall into the "trust but verify" double-speak - if you trust the person to do their job you don't need to audit them, if you don't trust them the you need auditing.
You must not be an auditor. You don't perform an audit to "catch people", although that will happen. You perform an audit to ensure that the way you are doing things is achieving what you want, and to develop new processes that improve your quality. Everyone typos, misses a scheduled task, etc. If you never audit, you never know what your issues are, or your opportunities for improvement.
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
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