Hiring A DBA
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Comments posted to this topic are about the content posted at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/cshaw/hiringadba.asp
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Chris,
A very informative article indeed!
We once interviewed a guy who was the Vice President of the local SQL Server Users Group. The resume was a perfect match for the position we had posted. Unfortunately, the person turned out to be a 'dud' when we interveiwed him on a more technical level.
Overall, I would say that hiring is a definitely more art than science
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Thanks for your article; it's applicable to hiring for any position. I especially liked your advice to list things you need done in the next month and in the next six months. As you pointed out, it helps you know what you need and helps a new worker set priorities. It also helps you make your case to higher management to get the job funded properly. Yours, =Marty=
Regards,R Martin Ladner
futureec.com -
>> Watch to see if they make or keep eye contact. Are they more interested in the map on the wall behind you? I specifically interview in a room in our office that has a really neat picture of Earth. I want to see what they are more interested in, the interview or the photo.
Many IT people won't make eye contact. You can lose a really good candidate because they wouldn't make eye contact, and they focused on the "neat picture". This emphasis on socialization trivia (eye contact), in a technical field involving a heck of a lot of asocial "geeks", if you will, is not only a waste of time, but a good way to lose proficient candidates.
>> Look to see if their clothes are pressed and clean
Completely irrelevant (in IT). Some of the most brilliant, productive IT staff I've worked with wouldn't know a clothes iron if it hit them in the head.
John Scarborough
MCDBA, MCSA -
This is a good article. I was an Oracle Developer 10 years ago and then a company hired me as a SQL Server developer. The manager and I both thought SQL was SQL, what's the difference? Of course we were both wrong. I also interviewed with the DBA of that company at that time, he seemed to be a nice guy. After I started the job, I found out SQL Server developer was totally different. The DBA was a very knowlegable guy but he was rude, unprofessional and yelled at you liked you were a garbage. Since I was new at SQL server, I asked a question. His answer was ' Look at BOL, I don't have time to answer all the stupid questions'. Whatever you did , you had to do his way or no way. You were not allowed to create, you had to follow his instructions. The manager was totally on his side because she had no clue about database, she was totally relied on him. They hired another DBA who argued with him, the result the new DBA was fired.
http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/bknight/dbaroles.asp
This was an article about DBA job. Basically I had to do all of them except installing SQL Server and disaster recovering. I had to say I learnt a lot but after two years of mentally abusing, I had to quit because I was at the edge of a nervous break down.
After I found another job as SQL Server programmer, I found out I did a lot of the DBA work. I even knew more than the DBA of that company (it was a little pathetic.) This was due to two years of SQL Server boot camp.
But my point is the DBA's attitude is very important too. That company’s developer turnover rate was very high probably because of the DBA’s abuse. Knowledge is important, you have to hire someone knowing how to do the job but at the same time you have to find someone that can fit into your company and can work with other people.
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Great article with insightful points to be borne in mind for both employer *and* potential employee.
I have to strongly disagree with the sentiment that clothes being pressed and clean is irrelevant in IT. Consider a situation where you are down to the last two potential candidates: both have equal technical knowledge and ability. One is smart and presentable with good business savvy. The other looks like they ironed their clothes with next door’s cat. Who would you choose? You never know when the new recruit will need to represent your company (external client meetings, seminars etc).
All things being equal, presentation may clinch you the deal – well worth the cost of a new shirt and tie and getting your suit dry cleaned. Present yourself the way you want to be seen whenever it’s going to count.
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I really enjoyed the article, especially having just been part of a hiring process. I blogged a response here
http://www.sqljunkies.com/WebLog/outerjoin/archive/2006/06/19/21960.aspx
Jon Baker
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I enjoyed the part about listing the tasks for the next 30 days and the tasks for the next 180 days. What a great way to focus. That might have seemed obvious but I won't quickly forget it. If I'm on the other side of the table I might ask them the same question - what's on the plate?
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Good article, although I do disagree with one point you made:
"If the candidate has had one position in the last ten years and the employment was continuous, than that resume may float to the top of my pile."
Presumably the opposite is also true; those who have had more than one position over the past ten years sink to the bottom of your pile. You can lose some well-qualified candidates with a policy like that. In my personal situation, I was called up for active duty military service a couple of times in the past which caused disruptions in my civilian employment history. Additionally I spent quite a bit of time doing short-term contract work. You're going to increasingly find people with breaks in their employment history and job changes as military personnel are released from active duty over the next few years to return to the work force.
With the "one job in ten years" policy I'm sure my resume would at the very bottom of the pile and I'd probably never get an opportunity to pass your interview with flying colors. I suppose if I were doing the hiring, I would not immediately discard a resume just because the candidate has held more than one position within the last ten years... Personally I would ask why the person has held more than one position before I made a rush to judgment...
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Chris,
Very good article. Thank you. I am a veteran Headhunter in IT and I agree with some other's comments that much of your advise is relevant to any interview.
I especially liked your coach to grade the interviews. You will forget by Interview #4 in the day what Interview #1 said and you'll have a tendancy to choose the last great impression - which ever that was and it may not be your best candidate.
I would add that using assessments across the board in a company can assist in hiring success. The company measures 3-4 of their stars of the last 1-2 years employees and uses them as a measuring stick - then assesses new candidates. This take the hunch or gut feel out of those final cut decisions. Statistically they have proven that only 14% of hires are successful using traditional methods, whereas, 85% of hires are successful using a plan and assessments.
Thanks for the excellent article. I hope some folks use your advise.
OH - I do agree with Mike C about not putting the 10 year employment stint at the top of the pile. I have one client who has 25 years of the same experience!
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First off I would like to thank everyone for reading my article on SQLServerCentral.com. With printed articles you may not always get an idea on how many people read it. I was overwhelmed by the number of reads. I even more appreciated the comments to the article. What makes this topic what it is, is the fact that everyone has a different experience. I would like to however like to address a couple issues that people mentioned. I think the blog that Jon added had some great notes.
There was a post or two that mentioned that this is relevant to many positions. I do agree with this. When I sat down and started to write this article and speak on this topic it was because of the large number of candidates that I saw that did not have these skills that I talked about. I would love to mention some of the horror stories that I have had, but there are just too many.
Someone commented on my mention of keeping eye contact during the interview. I would like to clear up that if this was the only thing that I did not like about that interview then I am sure I could overlook it. In the article I made some statements that will have its exceptions.
Another exception or maybe a miscommunication in the article was the reference of 10 years of employment. So I would like to clarify, if a candidate had 10 years of employment I may float them to the top of the pile. Maybe I overstated this a little. The reason that I float those resumes to the top of the list is because I like to see the dedication to an employer. As an employer I can assure you that it is very costly and time consuming to get people up to speed. This however, does not mean that this is the only candidate that I would consider for an interview.
If I were to list the order of importance of what I look for in a good candidate it would all depend on the current workload and staff. If I can afford it I would always prefer to hire someone with a can do attitude over a senior skilled person. Sometimes the workload would need someone who can jump right in. In short, you can’t teach people the desire to succeeded and push forward. SQL Skills can be learned.
The most commented on statement was the clothing issue. I have to admit that I do want to see someone that takes this serious. It may not have to be a suit and tie. But I would not want to see jeans and a T-Shirt. Alone this would not disqualify a candidate, but I take it seriously.
I have copied this set of comments on my blog http://cssql.blogspot.com/ this is where I do most of my on-line reviewing and posting. If you have any questions please let me know. I would be more then happy to answer them or discuss them. Thanks again for reading and commenting.
Chris Shaw
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Thanks for the clarification Chris. I just find it a little annoying, based on my experience, that a candidate who has been at the same job for 10 years gets priority over a candidate who has an equivalent 10 years of experience, but with different companies. I understand that employers don't like to see "job-hopping"; however, there are a lot of factors beyond a candidate's control that can affect his/her resume:
- The company he/she worked for might have gone out of business (a lot of experienced DBA's, programmers and other IT folks out here have at least one failed dot-com listed on the resume),
- The company you worked for might have had to "downsize" or outsourced your position,
- You might have a break in employment due to military service, which by law cannot be used as a reason for not hiring (see the Uniformed Services Employment and Re-employment Rights Act or USERRA),
- The person might have been doing short-term contract work (very common when the job market is soft and there are no full-time jobs to be had)
Personally I would probably think highly of a candidate with 10 years of employment at two companies over that period. After all, he/she has:
- Worked in two different organizations with different missions and/or different plans to achieve their missions,
- Dealt with two different sets of managers who probably have different management styles,
- Most likely had varying duties and job responsibilities at each organization,
- Probably been exposed to, and gained experience with, different technology at each job.
Not to knock anyone who was lucky enough to hold onto the same job for 10 years, but all of that (to me at least) adds up to a better "quality" of experience.
Overall, excellent article. Thanks!
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I am with you, Mike, for last 3 years as a contractor, I changed job 5 times, almost every 4 to 6 months, I will switch to another company's project.
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Great article, very informative
With the "one job in ten years" policy I'm sure my resume would at the very bottom of the pile... OH - I do agree with Mike C about not putting the 10 year employment stint at the top of the pile... Not to knock anyone who was lucky enough to hold onto the same job for 10 years... I think it is easy to confuse length of employment with the number of jobs and job titles and experience, they are not the same.
Length of service shows loyalty. I have know some associates that gave very good plausible reasons for regular changes in employment but quietly admitted (but never to the boss) that they 'never stay in a job for more than 2-3 years'
The number of jobs. What is a job? Is it the actual employment, the different work or 'jobs' that you do that encompasses your employment. Which is worse, a person that sticks at one 'job', or someone who regularly changes because they can't make up their mind or find the work difficult (known these), or vice versa.
Job titles, what's in a title anyway. I've more of those that you can throw a stick at, not all were meaningful or even described my 'job'
Experience, which I consider as very important. It does not matter whether you had single or multiple employments, it is your experience (and knowledge) at doing the 'job' that matters.
A DBA, a whole DBA and nothing but a DBA, if that is what you are interviewing for then if that is all the interviewee has done, it does not matter as long as they have the experience you require for the post.
My job title is 'Software Engineer', but my 'jobs' are varied, analyst, programmer, developer, webmaster, DBA (of sorts) 'Jack of all Trades' (but never a master) and therefore consider myself to have a varied wide level of experience in a span of 23 years of employment. I wonder where would I be in that pile.
Far away is close at hand in the images of elsewhere.
Anon. -
"Length of service shows loyalty."
I agree, but it's not necessarily an indicator of the employee's loyalty to the company. A job change on my (or your) resume might very well be an indicator of our employer's loyalty (or lack of) to us, or management's inability to run a fiscally sound business. My point is that I wouldn't want to hold a job change against a candidate because of factors far out of his/her control.
"I have know some associates that gave very good plausible reasons for regular changes in employment but quietly admitted (but never to the boss) that they 'never stay in a job for more than 2-3 years'"
There are plenty of folks like that - and to them I say quit your day job and go into consulting
With consulting you get to switch up jobs regularly, which keeps the nomadic DBAs, programmers and cable splicers from getting bored. Some might argue that consultants don't have as much "job security" as full-time employees, but personally I don't see a lot of companies touting job security as one of their prime benefits.
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