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Migration to Production

  • March 16, 2005 at 10:19 pm

    #185503

    Comments posted to this topic are about the content posted at http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/gFritchey/migrationtoproduction.asp

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
    - Theodore Roosevelt

    Author of:
    SQL Server Execution Plans
    SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

  • March 22, 2005 at 3:46 am

    #548141

    A great article Grant, especially as you also highlight the problematic areas too.

    I think all of the issues stem from a single problem - you are being let down by your toolset.

    Embarcadero doesn't do lookup data and both it and Red-Gate require you to massage the schema and data difference scripts before everything works ok.  Also they force you to use an actual database as the source for discovering the changes.  'Wild West' is a very apt term for a shared development database as that is what it has been like on every project I've ever worked on.  Are the developers responsible for hand coding upgrade scripts or do you use Embarcadero/Red-Gate to produce the diff script?  If it is the latter then surely this part of the process is a total pain as you have to communicate on an object by object basis with the developers regarding what they actually want promoted and what is just gash (experimental) code?

    The company I work for has a process that suffers from NONE of the problems that you have described as the starting position is that ALL of the SQL code that describes your database should be under Source Control and whoever modifies anything to do with the schema and lookup data must check their changes in.  The only way changes then make it to QA or Staging is if they have come out of SourceSafe as a complete set of labelled scripts.

    If you would like to learn more about what I do then please have a look at the information on http://www.dbghost.com.  This is not an advert, I am simply offering a specific solution to your specifically stated problems.  The only problem I ever have in convincing people of our approach is to get them to understand configuration management in the first place!

    It is sad that a lot of shops simply adopt a whole load of manual, error prone processes and just resign themselves to the occasional bout of database chaos.

    All I do all day long is think about database change management issues and how to make things easier for everyone - it's how I make a living.

    Your process is fantastic you just need a world class tool to support it.

    Malcolm
    DB Ghost - Build, compare and synchronize from source control = Database Change Management for SQL Server
    www.dbghost.com

  • March 22, 2005 at 6:36 am

    #548169

    Great article Grant. along the same lines as migration, I'm curious if anyone has tried VersionStar yet (http://www.versionstar.com/) Again, not an advert but I'm trying to see if I should spend the time investigating it. From the screenshots, it looks to be every DBAs dream product for patch migration.

    Brian

    Brian Knight
    Free SQL Server Training Webinars

  • March 22, 2005 at 5:33 pm

    #548347

    I agree with the theory of your process but you could save yourself 90-95% of your time if you had a tool made for the job - http://www.dbghost.com

  • March 23, 2005 at 5:17 am

    #548426

    Thanks for the input. We are going to look at dbGhost since we're in the process of reworking how we do our development and QA processes and planning on working out of VSS as part of the build standard. Hopefully I'm not giving anything away by mentioning this since I promised an article on the new process and the reasons that drove us towards it.

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
    - Theodore Roosevelt

    Author of:
    SQL Server Execution Plans
    SQL Server Query Performance Tuning

  • March 23, 2005 at 4:58 pm

    #548634

    I look forward to hearing of your findings

  • March 24, 2005 at 6:52 am

    #548729

    you may also want to look at dbMaestro. (http://www.extreme.co.il/products/dbMaestroOverview.aspx).
     
    dbMaestro covers this scenarios :
    * saves a true version of the database - in your db server as db objects (not as text scripts)
        save your schema AND selected data - mainly lookup tables etc.
        you can save public versions for general use / private versions for the single developer
    * perform impact analysis (when you find a changed object - you can locate all objects using it etc)
    * compare schema changes (version vs. version / version vs. database /  database vs. database)
    * compare data changes in tables (version vs. version / version vs. database /  database vs. database)
    * sync / migrate between the environments (both schema & data)
     
    you can see an online demo here : http://www.extreme.co.il/demo/dbMaestroDemo.html
     
    AND you can use the freeware edition at no cost.
     
    Regards
     
    Yaniv
    Extreme

  • March 24, 2005 at 12:07 pm

    #548825

    Yaniv - although I have clearly provided a link to my companies website and product I think my post was a genuine answer to the authors stated issues, mainly the problem of working out what changes in the 'Wild West' were actually required for promotion.  Our method of using the familiar and easily generated SQL drop/create scripts, stored in the source control system, clearly addresses this problem head on.

    What you have just posted is simply a blatant advert/feature list.  How about actually taking the time to read the article, understand it in depth and suggest how your product may help alleviate the problems?

    I don't hold the view that products shouldn't be mentioned in forums but I do religiously believe that posts must be completely on topic and answer any specific questions/issues raised either in the original article or the subsequent posts.  Frankly I can't see what your product does over and above the other products currently owned and used by the author - make me a believer if you can.

    Also, I think it is great that your product has a free version but please don't use red highlighting and exclamation marks - it just makes you look like a spammer.

    I suggest you read up about forums and etiquette before making any further entries.

    Malcolm
    DB Ghost - Build, compare and synchronize from source control = Database Change Management for SQL Server
    www.dbghost.com

  • March 27, 2005 at 5:00 am

    #549057

    Malcolm,
    First - I can see that you are offended by the usage of red color or exclamation marks - and as there was no offending intentions - it was updated. no hard fillings, ha ? no spamming intentions...
     
    second  - what is your reason for stating that I have not read the article ? my post is on topic :
        * dbMaestro supports the scenarios described, as you stated your tool does, as an - all in one tool.
          and not with several tools.
        * it also offers solution for problems the author straggled with that the tools described do not offer
          (red-gate and embarcadero).
        * I think the author will still have to manually mange/version his data with the solutions offered
          (and is supported with my tool).
     
    third - if you had took the time, and actually read my post (or looked at my web site, as I did at yours), you could have seen why I think dbMaestro offers something other tools do not offer:
        * dbMaestro offers a way to save database objects version in their true and original form -
          database objects.
        * this ability enables extensive object dependencies analysis, even in it's versioned state -
          assisting in analyzing changes.
        * one of the problems the author had - was managing the changes in static data tables,
          when changing from version to version.
          dbMaestro enables you to bundle versioned data with versioned schema.
    "Frankly I can't see what your product does over and above the other products currently owned and used by the author - make me a believer if you can."
        PLEASE tell me red gate, embarcadero (or DB Ghost for this matter) support this functionality too.
        otherwise it would be appropriate for you to update you post, and drop some of your offensive blames.
     
    (BTW - claming your post is not an advert and stating "you just need a world class tool" with your URL - does not go hand in hand...) 
     
    Yaniv

  • March 27, 2005 at 1:35 pm

    #549064

    Yaniv - your latest post is much better.

    You actually include some reasons for using your product that actually relate to the authors article.

    You have also answered the other question regarding what your product offers that is significantly different.

    Never assume anything - I have looked at your website and used your product but you have assumed that everyone else who reads this forum has. 

    My point is still valid - you must try to SPECIFICALLY answer any stated problems.  Your product may well solve some of the authors problems, you just need to spend some time outlining how.  Your original post didn't do this, your second post does.

    As you mention it, I believe DB Ghost does offer a solution to the authors problems and I will, therefore, not be amending my post as I see nothing wrong with it.

    Also, as your native language is Italian and you are posting on an English forum I'll assume you didn't really mean to use such a strong word as 'offensive'

    Malcolm

    Malcolm
    DB Ghost - Build, compare and synchronize from source control = Database Change Management for SQL Server
    www.dbghost.com

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