The Certification Debate
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Is it worth getting certified? What do you get out of it? I've noticed a few debates on the site, and many threads asking about the exams, preparation, and even requirements for certification. Since we're primarily a learning site, publishing new information for you on a daily basis, the whole certified v real world experience question is interesting to me.
I read this interview with the CEO of New Horizons and it kind of annoyed me since the guy has an inherent bias towards certifications. Most of the New Horizon's classes are "official" classes from Microsoft designed and built to move you along the path to certification, not really to do your job.
And make both Microsoft and the training company money.
I have to admit that I have a bias here since I own part of a training company that delivers custom training in Orlando (Shameless plug for End to End Training inserted here). However our intention in starting the training company was to help those with a need for SQL Server training that would teach them things needed in the real world, not just things needed to pass some test. There's a difference and I might not feel quite the same way if Microsoft offered an SSIS certification, an HA certification, a replication certification and more. Heck, I write the QODs, granted sometimes badly :(, but I know there's enough stuff to test people on in each of those areas.
I think the idea of certification is a good one and it has the potential to really help differentiate those with the ability to perform well in a job and those that won't do as well. However the testing has to be geared towards that and we need ways to differentiate the skills and abilities. Without some type of internships, residencies, and focus on some specialty, attaining some certification doesn't really help. And I'm not sure that many of us know what we want to do and are willing to invest 5 years in training in one area.
Most employers now realize that a certification, or at least most certifications, in the IT industry is one small measure of an employee's skills. It shows a commitment for someone with experience and shows a desire to work, but not necessarily skill, for those new to an area. It's usually a filter these days, and a low one at that, with no guarantee of employment.
I still argue that certification exams are a good thing IF you have experience. You can use them to bolster your claim of skills and show that you care something about your profession.
That's if you pass.
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Oh brave soul.... The certification debate should a good one. I myself have a basic level of certification and at the time of gaining said accolade was considering almost a career in attaining and maintaining all the Solution Developer / DBA certs I could get my then employer to pay for. But alas the scenery changed faster than the view seen from the first class seats in a concord. I have attended many training facilities and participated in almost every 'Implementing every SQL Server version since adam' but unfortunatly left wondering what else do I need to attain the glory of a coverted MCSD/DBA/MCP with crossed swords and silver cluster. Yes it does show a level of personal commitment to whatever art you are into but, unless you have unlimited funds or a very amiable employer most of us just don't have the time. Rote learning and the Microsoft way.... Ummm I prefer working with knowledgable, self thinking people I can learn from. BTW I showed my 'MCwhatevers' to my current employer and his response was 'Thats nice..., but can you do ?'.
CodeOn
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Two good things about certification: keeps the troops and the customers happy.
As a manager, I can offer training and certification to my team as carrots (this will be good for your development and CV/resume) and also as sticks (I want you to take this to show that you're still learning).
As a supplier to internal customers, certification is a strong defence when people ask "who are these jokers in IT anyway?" if / when things go wrong. Lots of my customers have other qualifications in accountancy and finance, and this is one way to show that we also mean business. Slow SQL process? My MCDBAs are on it. Project taking a long time? My MCSDs have found that we really need to do this one carefully.
In an ideal world, there would be some kind of independent body granting well-respected, real-world, properly focussed certification with follow-ups so you couldn't just do a week's course and get MCP, but also so that MS wouldn't be able to make your qualification obsolete every 5 minutes. But this would be hard to start, as the vendors have a stranglehold at present.
Bill.
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Hi,
I applied for my current role through an advert placed by a recruitment agency. I got to know the owner of the company as he dealt with the position himself and we meet up occasionally to chew the fat. I was interested to know his opinion on the certification debate and his response was pretty much that he'll look for certified people if that's what the client asks for but if asked his opinion or left to his own devices then it made no difference. He'd rather select candidates that had relevant experience and showed that they had apptitude to learn new skills and were genuinely interested in the role being offered. I know for a fact that other interviewees were certified as is my manager who interviewed me and it clearly made no difference as i'm not certified. It's obvious to say that not every situation will be the same and some people/organisations set more store by such qualifications. In a tie break situation i might take it into consideration but my primary criteria would be experience, results and team work.
K.
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I have worked in the IT industry (with no certifications) for over 21 years for a combination of four employers. The largest was 1000 total employees, the smallest was 8. In these kinds of environments you end up being system architect, business analyst, database designer, DBA, software developer, QA tester, implementer, and trainer all rolled into one (at least to some extent). I've developed a variety of skills and, if job hunting, would be glad to consider different jobs that might emphasize one group of these skills over another. My employers haven't seemed to care whether I'm certified or not, as long as I can do the job.
So the only reason I would pursue certification would be to land the next job. But how do I pick the right one?
If I pick the MCSD, I might be looking at a DBA position so it won't apply. Likewise, if I pick the MCDBA, I might be looking at a business analyst position so it won't apply. And, of course, there are many, many additional combinations that fall into the same category. I could pursue multiple certifications, but they are very expensive and last for such a short amount of time. So I don't find it worth the time/money/effort.
I'd be better off pursuing an MBA! At least that won't expire!
I've taken the approach that if a potential employer insists on a certain certification, I would be glad to pursue that (even at my own expense, if necessary) after I've already landed the job. Please interview me for as long and hard as you wish to be comfortable with your decision to hire me, and if you still insist on certification, I'll show you that I'm dedicated enough to acquire that as well.
The flip side of it is that certification only proves a certain level of competence, but not the ability to do the job. I know people in the industry who are certified various ways who can barely, minimally accomplish the day-to-day tasks in which they are certified.
Based on my experience, if I'm doing the hiring, certification may be nice decoration on the resume but doesn't mean a whole lot more than that.
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As a survivor of a number of New Horizons training episodes, I attest to the transitory value of what they sell. The instructors knew their stuff, but the entire method of training produced little to no long-term results. Other than an enrichment of their shareholders...
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Steve,
Wow! Surprised you opened this can of worms!
There are a ton of debates over Certifications vs. Degrees vs. Job Experience.
What I've found is it all plays into the overall picture of the person. I've passed over 50 microsoft exams, Comptia exams, oracle exams and hold a master's degree in comp sci and have never taken "certification training". From the standpoint of an employee, the certification makes you think about things that you might not come in contact with every day or learn (by doing in a development environment) new things or ways of doing things. It also can differentiate you from other candidates when going for a job.
Sure if someone spoonfeeds you the information, you can memorize and regurgitate, but thats not the idea, and you're only cheating yourself. If you can't do it then you'll fail in your job.
Are there certified guys who can't do? sure. Are there guys who are not certified who can do? yep. But usually certification at least means there's a minimum level of knowlege.
Mark
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Steve, as part of the team that developed the objective domain for the Database Developer track, I can tell you that we started with the question "What does a Certified Professional Database Developer on SQL Server need to know?" The discussions that followed created the outline for both the Microsoft Official Curriculum, and for the certification exams (441 and 442). The information in the courses teach you what you need to know to pass the exam because they were built from that outline, but the outline was built based on the knowledge we felt was needed to be effective on the job.
Allen White
SQL Server MVP
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I have taken several MS classes at New Horizons and have learned a lot, but never gone done the certification path. I have taken some practices tests and seen many questions where I wondered why I would ever need to know the answer. When I interview I openly tell people that I don't know everything, but htat I know how to use BOL and that I regularly use sites like SSC, so I can usually find the answer. I'd love to be certified because it is good on a resume, but I have not seen enough benefit in it for doing my day to day tasks.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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Personally I think the real value in a certification is the learning that happens while studying for a certification. If you cheat and just memorize answers then the certificate is worthless. Sort of like using steroids to become the home run king (oh well, that's a different debate). I've always felt when looking to hire to consider three things to determine if a candidate can be technically successful: experience, knowledge, and certifications.
Some companies reward employees financially for achieving certifications so that is always an incentive to keep studying and passing tests. Not necessarily a good reason, but an attractive reason for many.
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Just my 2 cents. Studying for my MCDBA exams I learned quite a bit about the ins and outs of SQL Server. Certainly there was a fair bit that I won't use in my current job but at least I'm aware of it in case that changes. The studying certainly helped me learn better ways of doing things, especially since I didn't have a wealth of experience yet.
I know that my employer is glad that I worked to get the certification since our accountants and other IT staff have credentials too. I don't mind having an extra leg to stand on when someone is suggesting we do something ludicrous on SQL Server.
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I think that the outlines for the exam are a good broad based set of skills. However the exams don't test your ability to do them, other than the 431 exam, and I thought that was the hardest and best test of skills. More exams should be like that and they honestly should test a narrower band of skills. If you're only asking 35 questions and giving 8 skills, then you should narrow the band down to one slice of the product.
My biggest problem is that the classes for certification end up teaching how to pass a test, not perform skills. I'm not sure how to get the exams out of vendors' hands, but at least they should require some level of experience. Maybe 6mo-1year of work before MCTS, maybe 2 years for MCITPro? Even if it's not in that version, but just general IT experience.
It's a can of worms and the problem is that we don't have standards across the industry. Microsoft does things differently than Oracle than DB2 and we can't have a standard set of skills like in medicine, law, engineering, etc.
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Certifications are like college degrees - they demonstrate your desire for learning and self-improvement, and they can give you a competitive edge when applying for a position, but they are no substitute for experience.
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We've been interviewing for DBA's recently (anyone in Denver want a new job???), and a couple of the candidates were very proud of their MCDBA's and MCITP's, but didn't have the experience and knowledge to back them up. Technical Certification is just the icing, not the cake.
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What kind of job and where in Denver
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