June 24, 2012 at 4:23 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item The Next Generation
June 24, 2012 at 7:37 pm
I find that interviews are an interesting measure of how many people are interested in computers and how many are actually skilled at it. Judging from the numbers, there's certainly no lack of interest in computers no matter the disipline and no matter the gender. But there's certaily, as you say, a shortage of qualified candidates. There are a lot of people interested especially in the money aspect but very few who want to spend the time really getting good at it.
Perhaps the next generation saw the time their parents put into IT and decided not to do the same. That works out kind of good for us old timers. There's no age discimination when you're in demand. 🙂
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 25, 2012 at 9:34 am
I agree with RBAR on this one. There's no age discrimination when you're in demand.
But Steve, there is something in this field that is an issue for the new, young, and those that are not hardened professionals. We who have been in the field for years know that there is a crust many build up over time and that an honest question asked of that crusty person asked with a desire to learn is often met with a crass snippy reply. This attitude makes it appear as if the person answering is angry for being bothered or you even having the brass to ask them a question. It causes those who are looking or trying it out to feel as if they are not appreciated, wanted, or needed at all.
We could attract more people into the field if many would be more approachable.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
June 25, 2012 at 9:48 am
"There's no shortage of technology workers, especially good ones."
The way this is worded, it implies there are lots of good tech workers available.
And Miles, I'm one the "gray-hairs." 🙂
June 25, 2012 at 10:21 am
and we need to attract more people to this field if they have an interest
Who are 'we' and how would that go? There are many aspects of this, if we educate more by lowering the standards, that's something few wants. If we get more interested and more gets educated and interested then it would lower the salaries for everyone since there are more people to chose between. Simple market economy, and this is the good part. Depending on interests, difficulty and salary you get a specific amount of students. Were the salaries to go up, you'd get more students searching to our business area.
In conclusion, I do not really see a problem. Thou I do agree that the gender balance could be better. But to expect females and males to think alike is to be naive.
June 25, 2012 at 10:54 am
John, I do not know if it was this way when you started but there were not a lot of older IT folks back in the early 70's. Really the field was so young then that most were very young and for the most part mostly male. It has changed much, is changing now, and should change even more in the future.
To make the profession better we need all who are willing to participate in this great adventure. There is room for all who wish to contribute.
M.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
June 25, 2012 at 11:13 am
I'm not sure "we" are the right people to be marketing this career. Maybe "we" are, but doesn't that sort of get into the whole guild concept (master/journeyman/apprentice, and so on)?
I think employers who hope to benefit from future generations of IT pros are the ones who really need to market it.
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June 25, 2012 at 11:46 am
Miles Neale (6/25/2012)
We could attract more people into the field if many would be more approachable.
Very true. I think this is one place where we as industry veterans don't do enough to attract others.
June 25, 2012 at 11:48 am
Jeff Moden (6/24/2012)
I find that interviews are an interesting measure of how many people are interested in computers and how many are actually skilled at it. Judging from the numbers, there's certainly no lack of interest in computers no matter the disipline and no matter the gender. But there's certaily, as you say, a shortage of qualified candidates. There are a lot of people interested especially in the money aspect but very few who want to spend the time really getting good at it.Perhaps the next generation saw the time their parents put into IT and decided not to do the same. That works out kind of good for us old timers. There's no age discimination when you're in demand. 🙂
Interest in computers or computing? I think tons of people like the gadgetry aspect of computers and see the use, but are there that many interested in learning how they work and how to build new systems? I'm not sure there are lots.
I would agree there are plenty that don't want to work to get better. The same problem applies to doctors, but they manage to attract people willing to work. Shouldn't we?
June 25, 2012 at 11:49 am
GSquared (6/25/2012)
I'm not sure "we" are the right people to be marketing this career. Maybe "we" are, but doesn't that sort of get into the whole guild concept (master/journeyman/apprentice, and so on)?I think employers who hope to benefit from future generations of IT pros are the ones who really need to market it.
I'm not sure employers would ever do this well. I think we are the people in the industry, and yes, perhaps we ought to have some type of guild structure that we use to help bring along others into the industry.
June 25, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/25/2012)
I would agree there are plenty that don't want to work to get better. The same problem applies to doctors, but they manage to attract people willing to work. Shouldn't we?
Doctors are glorified. Mothers still tell their daughters 'Marry a Doctor'. Yes, sad but true. Computer programmers are the adult nerds everyone through high school watched get socially abused. That may or may not be changing, but with that stigma permanently attached to the positions in everyone's heads simply by childhood osmosis... That's a damned steep hill.
Never stop learning, even if it hurts. Ego bruises are practically mandatory as you learn unless you've never risked enough to make a mistake.
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June 25, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Interest in computers/technology/data is one thing.
Interest in working in the work environments of IT is another thing quite different. The attitudes and macho-ism is daunting, not to mention that perennial, the rise thru positions, helpdesk is fine for females bit like receptionists but reach further and find the tide is always going out.
It is also thought with IT folk, give them the workspace no other department wants, no ventilation, no light coz we all so different from the rest that a monitor and computer is all we want from life. There's the business and then there's IT prevalent attitudes, girls don't buy into this.
June 25, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (6/25/2012)
Jeff Moden (6/24/2012)
I find that interviews are an interesting measure of how many people are interested in computers and how many are actually skilled at it. Judging from the numbers, there's certainly no lack of interest in computers no matter the disipline and no matter the gender. But there's certaily, as you say, a shortage of qualified candidates. There are a lot of people interested especially in the money aspect but very few who want to spend the time really getting good at it.Perhaps the next generation saw the time their parents put into IT and decided not to do the same. That works out kind of good for us old timers. There's no age discimination when you're in demand. 🙂
Interest in computers or computing? I think tons of people like the gadgetry aspect of computers and see the use, but are there that many interested in learning how they work and how to build new systems? I'm not sure there are lots.
I would agree there are plenty that don't want to work to get better. The same problem applies to doctors, but they manage to attract people willing to work. Shouldn't we?
I should have clarified. Most of the interest isn't actually in computers or software. Most of the interest is in the $$$ some people make in the IT business.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 25, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Many of us who started work in the 70s and 80s are approaching retirement. There will be a lot of opportunities for the younger workers coming along. We can encourage high school and college age students to consider IT as a career by allowing them to shadow us for a day or grant informational interviews to make it all more concrete in their minds. User groups could sponsor a career day for the local educational institutions. We don't have to wait for the employers to take the initiative to find new workers.
June 27, 2012 at 10:13 am
I would love to see more women in this business personally. However, with the demanding off hours and last minute weekend emergencies it can be very difficult for many of them to maintain a household at the same time. This reminds me of a meeting I was once in where the manager stated that all the DBA's and Network Admins had to work late into that night on-site to get a big project into production and the one single mother said flatly. "I have children to pick up from school and feed, bath,and put to bed tonight. I'm sorry I just cannot do that." Well, to make a long story short, she did not last long there. For many of them, their after-work schedules, marriage, and children priorities prevent them from being able to keep the kind of strange off hours that this type of job often demands. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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