February 25, 2013 at 10:41 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Look Beyond the First Result
February 26, 2013 at 3:52 am
Surely this is an example of the natural progression of BI usage, is it not? Businesses tend to be interested in trends as they are looking at catering for what they percieve as the majority. That was all that they were doing. Having not seen how it was delivered, it is possible - and likely - that they did not make it clear what the criteria they offered as a default was thereby allowing Mac users, in this case, to say "Actually, I want to target a different criteria for my room".
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 26, 2013 at 4:32 am
I think targeted advertising is OK providing that the end user is made explicitly aware of what the targeting preferences are.
Taking the Orbitz example, it could be argued that targeting one section of the user base with items at a different price level to another section of the user base in a covert manner is potentially illegal under unfair contract terms legislation. The same could be argued if the targeting was done under generic site T&Cs.
However, if the end user could see on their screen what targeting was available and being used, and had the choice of turning it off or on, then the targeting becomes obvious and fair.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
February 26, 2013 at 5:42 am
Was it then impossible for the OSx user to resort the content and find a better price? If so I would agree about the questionable ethics. On the other hand, if the user simply accepts what is displayed without doing further research they are just as culpable...if, indeed, there is any culpability to be assigned.
Many years ago I learned that just because you see SALE in huge letters in a store window (an early physical corollary to a web page :-)) it does NOT mean that the prices you will find are lower. In fact it was proven that the impression of a SALE would bring in customer more than willing to pay more because they forgot the basic rule of commerce: caveat emptor.
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Buy the ticket, take the ride. -- Hunter S. Thompson
February 26, 2013 at 7:05 am
I resent the notion that, just because I may be more affluent than another person, I should be expected to pay more for everything I buy. I purchased a BMW a few years ago, but sold it when it became obvious that every time I took it in for service the charge was higher than I paid for comparable service on other cars I've owned. And when I had to have repairs performed, I was looking at a mid 4-figure repair bill.
Like any sensible consumer, I want to get a product or service of acceptable value at an acceptable price. I DON'T expect to be fleeced by merchants who tell me they are doing me a favor by pushing higher priced (but not necessarily better) options, in the hope that I'll fatten their bottom line.
This is self-serving greed, nothing less. That Orbitz has discovered Apple customers can be manipulated to buy higher-priced options is bad enough. That they are unapologetic is worse still.
And please...Stop with all this "consumers want targeted ads" baloney. Consumers view ads as a distraction or obstruction which prevents or delays their enjoyment of content. Any other interpretation is just wishful thinking. I will avail myself of every possible technology to avoid ads.
February 26, 2013 at 7:33 am
Consumers view ads as a distraction or obstruction which prevents or delays their enjoyment of content. Any other interpretation is just wishful thinking.
Totally agree!!
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
February 26, 2013 at 7:43 am
You might resent it, but the fact is most affluent people are viewed by everyone else as having deeper pockets. So, they tend to be a target for stuff like this. If people know you are affluent and you tip like everyone else does at most restaurants just watch the looks you will get. People expect it because they know you can afford it. If people know you are affluent and you don't give handsomely to a charity that is seeking your donation just watch the looks you will get from them. If people know you are affluent and you only put $10 in the offering plate on Sunday just see how welcome you are there from then on. Look at all the people who will come out of the woodwork hitting you up for money if you ever hit the lottery? Show up to work every day driving a shiny brand new Corvette and see how people's perception of you will suddenly change. It's not really fair I know to be viewed by everyone as a bank roll, but then again, who in world ever told you the world was fair? 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 26, 2013 at 8:08 am
I know the world expects me to pay more, just because I can afford it. I don't buy from those leeches for the same reason I don't buy a Lamborghini to drive to the grocery store. It is an over-priced vanity product with no more additional value for my needs than buying a Chevy Malibu.
What's really under attack here is the whole philosophy of the so-called "free market." We were all told that free markets allow consumers to buy goods at the lowest price because of competition. But that whole system is completely overwhelmed by Madison Avenue, which has honed the fine art of hyperbole and deception to the point where consumers can be made to believe they MUST have the latest fad, even to the point of neglecting important purchases of basic needs, like food, clothing and shelter. You can claim that consumers themselves are to blame for being fooled, but if we are honest, we have to admit that consumers are not always told the truth, or are not always given all the information they need to make an informed decision.
When Orbitz sorts the travel search results for Apple users to place the higher-priced options first, and doesn't display a big red flashing message saying, "We know you have more money, so we're hoping you'll choose these expensive travel plans without question," they are being deceptive and certainly NOT forthcoming about how they have manipulated the search results for their own corporate gain. They made the decision that their corporate profit was more important than helping me save money. I have no respect for their tactics or their motives.
February 26, 2013 at 8:17 am
DavidBrown-731687 (2/26/2013)
You can claim that consumers themselves are to blame for being fooled, but if we are honest, we have to admit that consumers are not always told the truth, or are not always given all the information they need to make an informed decision.
Hmmmmm, consumers not being told the the truth, wow! what a novel idea. With all due respect to you sir, what planet have you been living on lately? This whole marketplace is based on deception, you just have to deal with it. We live in a world of the haves and the have nots.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
February 26, 2013 at 8:17 am
Sales have been targeted for a LONG time. Door to door salesmen (and women) didn't pick streets at random. You don't think that when you walk into a car showroom that the sales person hasn't evaluated you already (maybe not accurately at all but it focusses their opening gambit for certain).
Let us not be naive here. People don't like it but they are living in an economy based on it even if only in part.
Gaz
-- Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen...they're everywhere!!!
February 26, 2013 at 8:52 am
I'm fully aware of the world I'm living in, thank you.
What disgusts me is the way that corporate America gets away with this deception, and tries to thwart any attempt to bring ethical behavior into their business dealings. Marching under the banner of "Less regulation is good for America" they are trying to remove or restrict any oversight on their activities.
If the financial crisis of the last four years hasn't taught us anything, it should have taught us that 'laissez-faire' is a recipe for disaster, that corporations will NOT self-regulate, and we cannot (and should not) trust them to act in our interest as consumers.
Take this simple test. Try to think of the last time a corporation actually did something for you that didn't involve extracting more money from your wallet. OK, time's up! You couldn't think of anything, could you? More than likely, you could find plenty of examples of where they either upped your bill without giving you anything, or kept your bill the same and reduced your service. Either way, they lined their pockets at your expense.
If you say, "Well that's just the way things are," then they have won. I'm not ready to give up that fight quite yet. And neither should you.
February 26, 2013 at 9:14 am
I say that honest is the only requirement. If they say they'll charge Mac customers more I'm fine with that, just be honest. If I am buying mortgage backed securities be honest with the quality. Just be honest. As for Orbitz you could still get the lower priced hotels you just had to select the sort or move to the next page.
February 26, 2013 at 9:22 am
DavidBrown-731687 (2/26/2013)
I resent the notion that, just because I may be more affluent than another person, I should be expected to pay more for everything I buy. I purchased a BMW a few years ago, but sold it when it became obvious that every time I took it in for service the charge was higher than I paid for comparable service on other cars I've owned. ...
But that is NOT the situation here. NO ONE was charged more for the same service, they were offered (firstly) more expensive services. A very different situation. This, by the way, is quite different from BMW's habit of charging ridiculous prices for service (and locking down the cars so that independent service is not always possible).
It's more akin to your walking into a store in a quality suit, the salesman will probbably offer the higher quality goods first.
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-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers --
February 26, 2013 at 9:46 am
jay-h (2/26/2013)
DavidBrown-731687 (2/26/2013)
I resent the notion that, just because I may be more affluent than another person, I should be expected to pay more for everything I buy. I purchased a BMW a few years ago, but sold it when it became obvious that every time I took it in for service the charge was higher than I paid for comparable service on other cars I've owned. ...But that is NOT the situation here. NO ONE was charged more for the same service, they were offered (firstly) more expensive services. A very different situation. This, by the way, is quite different from BMW's habit of charging ridiculous prices for service (and locking down the cars so that independent service is not always possible).
It's more akin to your walking into a store in a quality suit, the salesman will probbably offer the higher quality goods first.
And by doing as you suggest there is a certain risk. Making the assumption that a person will buy higher priced or "nicer" things based on one item such as the suit they wear is silly. Also based on the type of browser, type of machine, or time of day a person comes to the site is not really the brightest light on the block as well.
Statistics tell us that making a conclusion on one assumed fact is dangerous and has a very high probability of failure. This is why corporate america is trying to gather as much information about you as possible. They are mining everything they can get their bots and spiders on. They want to develop a statistical trend to bend the probabilities in their favor. Thus they collect everything, analyze it all, and then make a "best guess" estimate as to what to show you and how to present it. This is based on the idea that you will continue to make similar decisions based on the decisions of the past. And if the statistical base is broad enough then the assumptions have a much higher probability of success.
Is it moral and legal? Yes it is. If you are a business why would you want to waste time and monies showing customers as the first options, things they have never shown an interest in buying. And as a customer you want to get to what you want as quickly as possible and not have some one trying to sell you something you do not want or need.
Lastly, the willingness to pay a higher price for quality and cost of an item may not be related to the type of machine at all. Consider the Apple owner who lost their job 16 months back and is still looking or has had to compromise on a much lower paying job. To assume that they would be willing to pay for the higher priced item in this case would be incorrect. They might want to but they cannot do it. To have the things they would like to have and can no longer afford put in their face each time they come to a site might be quite depressing, and in fact depress your sales.
M.
Not all gray hairs are Dinosaurs!
February 26, 2013 at 9:51 am
DavidBrown-731687 (2/26/2013)
If you say, "Well that's just the way things are," then they have won. I'm not ready to give up that fight quite yet. And neither should you.
I hear ya David. However, I tend to choose my fights carefully. I don't choose fights I know I have no chance of winning or at least breaking even at. That's just good common sense IMHO. Our current economic system is corrupt from the inside out and if Washington can't (or won't) change it then what do you think you chances are? For all we know our leaders are probably in on it anyway and taking kick backs from it. David, please remember this bottom line in life:
"Most of the mess that is called history comes about because kings and presidents cannot be satisfied with a nice chicken and a good loaf of bread.” When morality comes up against greed, greed tends to usually win out. Just the way it is my friend. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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