June 9, 2010 at 12:14 am
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Is the MVP Worth It?
June 9, 2010 at 12:25 am
Like you said, you need to do the work with or without the award.
Gail made a very strong statement, which I agree with, that it's not something to work for, but rather recognition awarded to you.
I also think that you are either the type to deliver the kind of work and contributions, or not (it might even be seen as a personality trait ??).
The title would obviously be a massive award, to me, to anyone, but it should not be your goal.
This would a result of setting your goals towards community work (SQL Related 🙂 )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This thing is addressing problems that dont exist. Its solution-ism at its worst. We are dumbing down machines that are inherently superior. - Gilfoyle
June 9, 2010 at 4:44 am
If I were to choose between putting in the hard yards for a MVP vs. MBA, I would absolutely go for the MBA. I also dare say there is more in it for Microsoft than for the individual. As an MVP, you are evangalizing their products to the world and - as Steve said - are paid little to nothing extra to do it. Not to mention the extremely valuable product and community feedback MS is spoon-fed through the MVP channel. It certainly would be interesting to know what value Microsoft places on their MVP's. Surely somewhere within the bowels of the MVP program, someone has worked out the tangible and/or intangible value of your typical MVP.
For me, there are countless better ways to "give back" than to support the product development & marketing efforts of a very profitable $60billion global company. Of course, I'm cynical about these things and as George Carlin once said: "Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist."
Looking forward to other opinions.
James Stover, McDBA
June 9, 2010 at 6:04 am
In over 30 years in this business, I have rarely seen anyone with an MVP award who actually measures up to being an "MVP" - and worse, in some cases, those with this award have very narrow knowledge - in that, yes they are experts, but often they cannot step outside that narrow alley of what they know.
Worse, since the MVP award is really a Microsoft "animal" - how can that represent an impartial view, let alone definition of what an MVP is. Maybe you're a SQL Server MVP - but you don't know squat about say, C#... Is THAT really an "MVP"??? I will take an experienced 'MacGyver' type with wide knowledge, over any MVP with narrow knowledge any day.
The entire concept is a sales gimic and therein, the entire concept is ridiculous and always has been.
June 9, 2010 at 6:18 am
An excellent question, and comparing it to writing a book is pretty apt. I suspect, more than anything, it's a personality trait that drives a person to do that kind of labor outside of normal working hours. Is it worth it? It's honestly hard to say. I guess you have to ask if you believe in the concept of a "community" of SQL Server users. If you do think that there is such a critter, and you're one of the people that has helped build/maintain/grow that community, then a bit of recognition for the work is nice. The glass brick looks good on your desk.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
June 9, 2010 at 8:40 am
To answer the question, I will ask another question. With or without the award/reward, is it worth it? Is it worthwhile to give of yourself to others? Is it worthwhile to help another person? Is it worthwhile to increase your personal knowledge (a common side effect of helping others) or skills or character? Is it worthwhile to feel good about having done something good? Does it make you feel good to give an act of service?
It doesn't matter to me that I am not an MVP or that I have not written a book. I try to help and it feels worthwhile to me.
Jason...AKA CirqueDeSQLeil
_______________________________________________
I have given a name to my pain...MCM SQL Server, MVP
SQL RNNR
Posting Performance Based Questions - Gail Shaw[/url]
Learn Extended Events
June 9, 2010 at 10:12 am
CirquedeSQLeil (6/9/2010)
To answer the question, I will ask another question. With or without the award/reward, is it worth it? Is it worthwhile to give of yourself to others? Is it worthwhile to help another person? Is it worthwhile to increase your personal knowledge (a common side effect of helping others) or skills or character? Is it worthwhile to feel good about having done something good? Does it make you feel good to give an act of service?It doesn't matter to me that I am not an MVP or that I have not written a book. I try to help and it feels worthwhile to me.
Yes. It does feel good to give service. I tend to do that outside of my career, though. I don't do it for recognition but I see the need and feel useful filling it. I can't comment on whether a M.S. MVP is worthwhile to have. Only those with the designation can answer that.
June 9, 2010 at 10:34 am
CirquedeSQLeil
Here! Here! I could not agree more with what you said. I am still new but I answer questions I feel I can and I get more out of doing that then I give. Often I may have to do some level of research to answer the question and I learn something I did not know before. I meet people I did not know before and make connections I did not have before. To say that I am not already rewarded would be simply wrong.
Dan
If only I could snap my figures and have all the correct indexes apear and the buffer clean and.... Start day dream here.
June 9, 2010 at 11:01 am
CirquedeSQLeil (6/9/2010)
Is it worthwhile to increase your personal knowledge (a common side effect of helping others)
This is the reason I do it... not only do I learn (from researching the answer), but it reinforces what I've learned. And you get to learn from other posters when they present something different.
Wayne
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server 2008
Author - SQL Server T-SQL Recipes
June 9, 2010 at 11:03 am
So Blandry, I'm confused, you're not an MVP because you don't know everything about a product? Or everything in some area? Or all technologies?
The award is a community award. It's not a technical one, though they (supposedly) do want people to contribute in a technical way.
It's what you make of it, and what you take from it, like many things. I like the program as there are many people passionate about MS products. We enjoy working with them, and we enjoy helping people. MS gives a few small rewards, and some inside information, and a few parties.
June 9, 2010 at 11:09 am
Excellent editorial (again) Steve!
In answer to your question: You are correct, it depends.
If you're a consultant, marketing yourself as recognized and awarded helps - regardless of the recognition or award. It's part of the reason people take certifications - to demonstrate they know something in some way.
What does the MVP Award really award? That also depends. Microsoft keeps a pretty tight lid on their thinking about who receives and who does not receive the MVP award. They are never going to please everyone. The fact that there are detractors and "attractors" is a pretty good indication they've achieved some kind of balance.
I don't know all the MVPs - heck, I don't even know most SQL Server MVPs. But the SQL Server (and other) MVPs I do know are hardworking community-minded people. The rare individual who speaks differently about these SQL Server MVPs actually says more about themselves than the MVPs.
:{> Andy
Andy Leonard, Chief Data Engineer, Enterprise Data & Analytics
June 9, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Yes.
Personally I lurk on forums, write blog posts and articles and present because I enjoy it, not because I'm paying dues or trying for an award. I'd be doing it regardless.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
June 9, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Actually, you've got it backwards! It's "what's the value to the community?" of having the MVP designation?
A noobie looking at a blog or forum may not know who is who, and whose advice is worth following (especially if their job is on the line). If someone has been awarded MVP status this is an indication that they have made valuable contributions to the community and have demonstrated some capability, so its worth listening to what they say.
David Lathrop
DBA
WA Dept of Health
June 9, 2010 at 8:52 pm
James Stover (6/9/2010)
If I were to choose between putting in the hard yards for a MVP vs. MBA, I would absolutely go for the MBA. I also dare say there is more in it for Microsoft than for the individual. As an MVP, you are evangalizing their products to the world and - as Steve said - are paid little to nothing extra to do it. Not to mention the extremely valuable product and community feedback MS is spoon-fed through the MVP channel. It certainly would be interesting to know what value Microsoft places on their MVP's. Surely somewhere within the bowels of the MVP program, someone has worked out the tangible and/or intangible value of your typical MVP.For me, there are countless better ways to "give back" than to support the product development & marketing efforts of a very profitable $60billion global company. Of course, I'm cynical about these things and as George Carlin once said: "Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist."
Looking forward to other opinions.
Heh... you've probably only identified just a couple of percent of the MVP's. Most don't engage in the "reindeer games" that some play because they're too busy doing what got them the award in the first place... helping people on the forums and at work. My personal observation is that most of the better MVPs that take part on this forum don't even carry the logo or the letters "MVP" in their signature lines nor do they knock their MVP rings when challenged or trying to make a point. They take the award just for what it is... a public service award and the award doesn't change a thing. They just keep on serving the public doing something they really like to do. It's just one of those "countless better ways" that you're apparently not aware of and it's a real shame that you would cheapen the incredible efforts of a whole group of very kind people because you've only observed a small percentage of the more verbose MVPs. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
June 9, 2010 at 9:19 pm
blandry (6/9/2010)
In over 30 years in this business, I have rarely seen anyone with an MVP award who actually measures up to being an "MVP" - and worse, in some cases, those with this award have very narrow knowledge - in that, yes they are experts, but often they cannot step outside that narrow alley of what they know.Worse, since the MVP award is really a Microsoft "animal" - how can that represent an impartial view, let alone definition of what an MVP is. Maybe you're a SQL Server MVP - but you don't know squat about say, C#... Is THAT really an "MVP"??? I will take an experienced 'MacGyver' type with wide knowledge, over any MVP with narrow knowledge any day.
The entire concept is a sales gimic and therein, the entire concept is ridiculous and always has been.
Heh... so call a C# guy instead of a DBA who happens to have an MVP award the next time you have a performance problem in your databases. "Narrow knowledge" isn't a symptom of being an MVP any more than it is for being a DBA. 😉
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 41 total)
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login to reply