January 3, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Comments posted to this topic are about the item Truth and Demos
January 3, 2012 at 10:51 pm
It IS a very small world, indeed. Good article, Steve. Thanks.
--Jeff Moden
Change is inevitable... Change for the better is not.
January 4, 2012 at 1:36 am
In my experience all sales staff over exaggerate the merits of the software that they are trying to sell you. Only the non-IT people are easily duped. Unfortunately they are the ones that are allowed to make the decisions.
January 4, 2012 at 1:45 am
Our department, comprising of Technical Specialists and Sales People, have adopted the policy that no product or service will be sold to any customers without the involvement from the people who will be responsible for implementing the work in the end, this way, no over-promising, overselling etc.
Technical People compile the proposal with the Sales People and approve any changes before sent to prospective clients.
seems to work out very good.
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This thing is addressing problems that dont exist. Its solution-ism at its worst. We are dumbing down machines that are inherently superior. - Gilfoyle
January 4, 2012 at 8:11 am
paul s-306273 (1/4/2012)
In my experience all sales staff over exaggerate the merits of the software that they are trying to sell you. Only the non-IT people are easily duped. Unfortunately they are the ones that are allowed to make the decisions.
this has been my experience as well.
:-/
Perhaps there's a need for a private/3rd Party Consulting company specializing in "failed implementations" that can be hired on to provide unbiased (or as unbiased as possible) opinions and help guide large companies through the evaluation phase of large IT implementations.
If I were about to put 8+ figures at risk, it'd be pretty easy to convince me to spend another 100k or so to get some unbiased advice from a team of experts who's pay is not contingent on my choosing their product.
Data Enthusiast | @SQLbyoBI | www.opifexsolutions.com
January 4, 2012 at 8:23 am
iPolvo (1/4/2012)
paul s-306273 (1/4/2012)
In my experience all sales staff over exaggerate the merits of the software that they are trying to sell you. Only the non-IT people are easily duped. Unfortunately they are the ones that are allowed to make the decisions.this has been my experience as well.
:-/
Perhaps there's a need for a private/3rd Party Consulting company specializing in "failed implementations" that can be hired on to provide unbiased (or as unbiased as possible) opinions and help guide large companies through the evaluation phase of large IT implementations.
If I were about to put 8+ figures at risk, it'd be pretty easy to convince me to spend another 100k or so to get some unbiased advice from a team of experts who's pay is not contingent on my choosing their product.
Sounds like a good business opportunity. Small businesses, without internal expertise on negotiating software/development/sales contracts, could definitely benefit from something like that.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 4, 2012 at 8:27 am
When I used to be in sales and marketing, I made sure to include drawbacks, costs, et al, in the negotiations. Wasn't selling software, but it was still sales and marketing. Had a lot of customers who were much happier because I warned them about things before-hand. If the costs, caveats, etc, were too onerous too them, they knew before-hand, and I would refer them to a competitor who would potentially better suit their needs. There were reasons I had five times the sales volume of any of the other salespeople in that field, and 8 times the customer-retention rate that was standard for that industry, and honesty and being up-front about everything were the main reasons.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
Property of The Thread
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
January 4, 2012 at 8:53 am
"It's your career, it's your reputation, and I'd hope that most of you would want to ensure that when someone speaks of your work, they do so positively."
Well.... we all would like to think so in a perfect world, but it has been my experience being in this industry for over 28 years, that people are going to say exactly what they want, whether it is backed up by fact or not. In many ways, it's just human nature. That's not to say that it's right, that is just the way most people are. They embellish, and they slant things to whatever their agenda is at the time, its just a fact of life. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 4, 2012 at 9:19 am
People will say what they want, but if you make a positive impression, and deliver good work, I've found in most of my career that people speak well of you overall.
If you don't do a good job, constantly overpromise and underdeliver, then you usually get talked about poorly. However probably not as bad as you deserve as most people tend to be overly polite and will tend to say nothing rather than something bad.
January 4, 2012 at 9:58 am
paul s-306273 (1/4/2012)
In my experience all sales staff over exaggerate the merits of the software that they are trying to sell you. Only the non-IT people are easily duped. Unfortunately they are the ones that are allowed to make the decisions.
There's a difference between minor exaggeration and faking demos. Everyone expects sales people to say things like, "This meets 95% of what you want," when 80-90% is more likely but not to say, "This is included in the sale and meets your needs," then turn around and say, "Actually, we want you to buy this additional thing to meet most of your needs." While I would rather see neither the later is outright unacceptable.
January 4, 2012 at 10:06 am
I had the misfortune to be on the phone list of a less-than-honest software salesman who tried to get my company to switch scheduling products. Unfortunately, his product did not have a critical functionality that our existing product had.
Every time I talked to him, he insisted that his product had that function. Fortunately I had the phone number of the technical staff, so each time I would call them and cross-check, and of course they would tell me the product did not have that function.
Being rather honest myself, I told the tech staff I was sorry they had to work with the salesman since 1) it was wasting their time each time I had to call and 2) I had no intention of purchasing a product from someone so dishonest, since I couldn't tell what else he might be "mistaken" about. The tech staff understood completely.
I also informed the salesman that I would not be purchasing the product, nor any other product from his company, because of his misrepresentation of it abilities. He didn't get the message, and continued to call until I told him rather firmly to stop, or I would take further action. That message, he got.
Sad that he wasted so much of his company's resources trying to get our business.
Steph Brown
January 4, 2012 at 10:57 am
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/4/2012)
People will say what they want, but if you make a positive impression, and deliver good work, I've found in most of my career that people speak well of you overall.If you don't do a good job, constantly overpromise and underdeliver, then you usually get talked about poorly. However probably not as bad as you deserve as most people tend to be overly polite and will tend to say nothing rather than something bad.
Have you ever worked for the government (City,County,Federal)? Doing a good job is many times totally irrelevant in the goverment sector. Its crony politics, who you know, and how much tenure you have, plain and simple. 😀
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 4, 2012 at 11:46 am
Stephanie J Brown (1/4/2012)
I had the misfortune to be on the phone list of a less-than-honest software salesman who tried to get my company to switch scheduling products. Unfortunately, his product did not have a critical functionality that our existing product had.Every time I talked to him, he insisted that his product had that function. Fortunately I had the phone number of the technical staff, so each time I would call them and cross-check, and of course they would tell me the product did not have that function.
Being rather honest myself, I told the tech staff I was sorry they had to work with the salesman since 1) it was wasting their time each time I had to call and 2) I had no intention of purchasing a product from someone so dishonest, since I couldn't tell what else he might be "mistaken" about. The tech staff understood completely.
I also informed the salesman that I would not be purchasing the product, nor any other product from his company, because of his misrepresentation of it abilities. He didn't get the message, and continued to call until I told him rather firmly to stop, or I would take further action. That message, he got.
Sad that he wasted so much of his company's resources trying to get our business.
If I am on a car lot, for example, and I think for a minute that the salesman is lying to me about the functionality of a car he is trying to sell me, then I simply walk off the car lot and go somewhere else. I don't go try verifiying his story with the service mechanics! I simply just move on.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
January 4, 2012 at 2:43 pm
TravisDBA (1/4/2012)
Steve Jones - SSC Editor (1/4/2012)
People will say what they want, but if you make a positive impression, and deliver good work, I've found in most of my career that people speak well of you overall.If you don't do a good job, constantly overpromise and underdeliver, then you usually get talked about poorly. However probably not as bad as you deserve as most people tend to be overly polite and will tend to say nothing rather than something bad.
Have you ever worked for the government (City,County,Federal)? Doing a good job is many times totally irrelevant in the goverment sector. Its crony politics, who you know, and how much tenure you have, plain and simple. 😀
While politics are definitely too common in government jobs, I have to disagree with your premise that doing a good job doesn't matter and it's all about politics. I work in a government job, and doing a good job is very important to my customers (other organizations outside of IT/IM). Especially when we are constantly being audited for accuracy, and have higher gov't organizations to report to, or we lose funding.
I can assure you that I'm not part of our "good old boys" club here (though we definitely have one), and I don't have much tenure (three years). I say what I'm thinking, which is typically not politically correct - so I'm not one of management's favorites. But they keep me here, because they know I do a good job and my customers love me. My managers are smart enough to know that's what's really important.
To comment on the overall editorial, I think it's great. IT is really all about customer service, and regardless of the environment we're in, we should strive to deliver on what we promise for the product, schedule and budget.
January 4, 2012 at 3:18 pm
I can assure you that I'm not part of our "good old boys" club here (though we definitely have one), and I don't have much tenure (three years). I say what I'm thinking, which is typically not politically correct - so I'm not one of management's favorites. But they keep me here, because they know I do a good job and my customers love me. My managers are smart enough to know that's what's really important.
That political climate can change very quickly in the government sector my friend. Believe me, I have seen it personally many times. Good hard working people laid off while the deadwood keep their jobs and their pensions. Doing a good job has never guaranteed that you will be there next month, regardless of what your managers may say this month.:w00t: They just bring part-time consultants, or much lower paid people in to replace you. Particularly, with so many local, county and state governments on the brink of insolvency today. It's down right dog-eat-dog my friend.:-D
"Technology is a weird thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other. ...:-D"
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