May 10, 2009 at 8:08 am
Apologies if this is the wrong forum, please feel free to move the message Mods if appropriate.
I need to know how you sql heads got your admin experience.
Currently I work in an App Support role for a large multinational that requires good sql server 2005/2008 knowledge.
I routinely have to debug sprocs that are nested many levels down ( 8 levels of nesting is not uncommon!), identify performance inhibiting issues and generally help keep the production envrionment up to speed.
The big problem is though, that there are teams for EVERYTHING in this company. Eg, you want to set up clustering, you contact the server managment teams and its done for you. You want to set up a Big IP for your site so it can be load balanced, you contact the guys who manage IP's, you want to get your raid array upgraded, contct the server guys again.
Im not saying its not well organized, but it means that in my position, its impossible to get the experience to become a full DB Admin. I can get my MCTS and other exams, but whats the point in being a paper DBA? Also, anything i learn, as im not using it day to day in the real world is quickly forgotten.
Moving jobs in the current climate is also a big no no, as im lucky to have a job at all, and may not in a few weeks, depending on certain circumstances.
Anyway, as im sure very few of you actually started in DBA roles, how did you gain your experience and expand your knowledge?
Thanks for the help all.
May 10, 2009 at 8:38 am
http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2009/04/how-to-get-a-junior-dba-job-part-1/
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 10, 2009 at 8:45 am
Thanks Gail. Good article, although this doesnt make me very hopeful for a move anytime soon.
There are no openings in my company, and even if there were, there are no full on DBA roles ( as its all divided out into teams who focus on different areas).
Also, done a search online and there are very little sql server dba jobs at all anywhere near where i live, let alone a Junior DBA role.
Looks like il just have to do the certs and gain what little experience I can alone and reassess the situation in a year or so when the jobs market picks up (hopefully)
May 10, 2009 at 8:56 am
The portion of the article that I was mostly referring to was the last paragraph.
If you’re a developer or Windows admin, try to get promoted internally rather than switching companies. You’ve already built up a level of trust with your coworkers. Make yourself the natural candidate by actively going after the position before the position even exists: volunteer to spend time with the DBAs, help them during scheduled outages, or just ask if you can sit around and watch during the weekend maintenance windows. Bring coffee, donuts and bacon, and be the most pleasant (but not over-the-top) person in the room.
If there are no full DBA teams, find the team that's the closest and see if you can spend time with them, learn from them, see if they're overworked see if there's space for another person. Who does the SQL admin there? (backups, maintenance, etc)? My last company, IPs, RAID, storage were all server admins' job, not DBA at all. Even if it doesn't score you a job with them, you'll be a lot more familiar with the admin-side of the job afterwards.
A cert and solo practice is highly unlikely to get you a DBA job. Experience is the most important. If you can show that you've been involved, that's a great help. If not, see if there are any charities/non-profit organisations in the area who need some admin work doing. Maybe it'll mean some time on a weekend, but it's experience, even if it's unpaid.
For the records, I'm not a DBA, never have been, no intention of ever becoming one.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 10, 2009 at 11:58 am
For the records, I'm not a DBA, never have been, no intention of ever becoming one.
Apologies if its a question you find too personal to answer on a public forum, but what is your occupation? From being a member here for a few years Ive come to know you as being a guru in all things SQL Server, but if thats not your main profession, and your more experienced in some other field then Id be interested to know what it is, and how you find the time to be a sql guru, and still have a career in a different area!
In relation to getting experience with the teams that do backups and that kind of maintenance, they are all located in India so it would be quite difficult to get personal time with them. Perhaps over live meeting or something, but its just not the same. As you advised Il have a look and see if there are any non profit organizations that need a hand.
Thanks.
May 10, 2009 at 2:49 pm
winston Smith (5/10/2009)
Apologies if its a question you find too personal to answer on a public forum, but what is your occupation?
Database consultant specialising in performance tuning, SQL development and, lately, doing BI projects as well. Until late last year I was a database developer doing mostly stored procedure dev and testing and performance tuning.
I worked with the admins occasionally (complex restores, database corruption), but I was not a DBA.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
May 11, 2009 at 2:43 am
GilaMonster has some good advice.
In my career I have often found the only way to get further is to do things in my own time. I have a Technet subscription which allows me to download all the Microsoft operating systems, server software, and other useful stuff. It is cheaper than MSDN but does not give you Visual Studio. This has helped me keep up-to-date and without doing this I would not have got my current job as Database Architect.
You are right in thinking you need hands-on experience to have a good chance of getting a DBA job. If you decide you really want to do this, then Gila's advice on helping the DBA team out of hours is a good way of getting the hands-on you need. If you decide you do not want to spend your own time to move your career on, do not expect other people to spend their time either.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
May 11, 2009 at 6:12 am
Cheers Ed.
Its not that I dont want to help the DBA(esque) team in my own time, in fact id love to, but as mentioned, they are in India, and out from taking a career break and moving half way across the world to India, all i can do is Live meeting, and although il discuss this with their team, I cant see them wanting the hassle of having to set up live meeting and confrence calls with me each time they are doing some task i want experience in doing.
May 11, 2009 at 6:45 am
I think Brent & Gail's advice is best. You have to get involved, somehow, with actual database work.
I started out in development by building apps and doing tech support for the graphics team I was working with. The tech support team grabbed me, where I started writing more apps until the development teams finally grabbed me. Off I went. Do what work you can from the position you're in. Reach out & grab opportunities as they come by.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood"
- Theodore Roosevelt
Author of:
SQL Server Execution Plans
SQL Server Query Performance Tuning
May 11, 2009 at 6:51 am
Geographical separation does make it difficult to shadow the DBA team work 🙁
It also probably means that your chances of getting DBA work in your current organisation are limited. Very few organisations transfer technical staff into overseas locations - they tend to use local staff and pay local wages, and India does not have a shortage of well-trained staff.
You can try getting involved in voluntary work, but it is often difficult to get potential employers to place much weight on anything but your day job.
I know DBA work can be interesting, but maybe a better direction for you is to aim for application architect skills - you will have a greater chance of getting the vital hands-on experience where you currently are, and the pay is good.
Original author: https://github.com/SQL-FineBuild/Common/wiki/ 1-click install and best practice configuration of SQL Server 2019, 2017 2016, 2014, 2012, 2008 R2, 2008 and 2005.
When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor they call me a communist - Archbishop Hélder Câmara
May 11, 2009 at 7:16 am
I considered application architect, but Im not a good developer, and havnt done much development outside of College. Ive done bits and pieces of .NET work, generally just small windows apps to simplify tasks for myself.
Due to this, and my lack of interest in hardcore development I cant see that being a good role for me to try to attain. I enjoy learning about sql server and improving envrionments from a database standpoint, but ask me to learn the nitty gritty of how web services interact with eachother and what not, and i have no interest.
Thanks for the advice though. il just see what opportuinities i can make for myself here at the moment. im sure there are loads if id just open my eyes.
May 11, 2009 at 8:09 am
I got my DBA experience through necessity. I built a database (started out being for my own use at work), and then I got to administer it.
There is a bit of a market for DBAs currently, at least in Florida (where I am). But I'm not sure there's one for someone looking for an entry-level position. Contact local recruiting agencies, see what they can come up with for you. Might take a little while, but can't hurt to start.
- Gus "GSquared", RSVP, OODA, MAP, NMVP, FAQ, SAT, SQL, DNA, RNA, UOI, IOU, AM, PM, AD, BC, BCE, USA, UN, CF, ROFL, LOL, ETC
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"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everyone agrees it's old enough to know better." - Anon
May 11, 2009 at 8:18 am
Remember to read up a lot about SQL Server and DBA issues that everyone is facing daily so you will be more prepared when you do get a chance.
BOL should be your best friend. 🙂
-Roy
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