August 19, 2010 at 7:33 am
Alvin Ramard (8/19/2010)
I think we need to propose a new way to of selecting the candidates. I'd like to see a process where anyone that has been a PASS member for a set minimum of time (maybe 1 year, TBD) can be a candidate, as long as they have x (say 10-12, for example) PASS members supporting them.
Allowing the current members of leadership to decide who is allowed to try to succeed them is how you prevent change, your way is much more reasonable and inclusive. I've seen other groups destroyed because the disaffected have no voice and they eventually either quit or form their own rival group.
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August 19, 2010 at 7:38 am
The problem with that, Alvin, is you get members who are just "sitting around" suddenly able to apply for the committee positions because they've been around for so long even though they haven't been volunteering or contributing much to the community.
It can't be just a seniority thing & popularity contest. I get that you have to have experience with volunteerism. But my first question is, do they actually have a definition of what level of volunteerism is required to make the cut? I.E., a certain number of hours each month / year, a certain type of organization (or is PASS the only organization from which your hours count?), and what type of work?
I don't know a whole lot about the process, but it almost sounds from the snippets I've read that the volunteer requirements don't have a minimum standard and are therefore a little arbitrary.
I'm also wondering if the committee has ever published their interview questions, or at least has a standard list of questions they ask every candidate. I'm not talking about the ad-hoc questions that are based off the interviewee's responses to the first questions, either. Different "standard" question sets tend to make or break interviews without the interviewee actually doing anything wrong.
August 19, 2010 at 7:46 am
Alvin Ramard (8/19/2010)
I think we need to propose a new way to of selecting the candidates. I'd like to see a process where anyone that has been a PASS member for a set minimum of time (maybe 1 year, TBD) can be a candidate, as long as they have x (say 10-12, for example) PASS members supporting them.
I think that an idea like this has merit, yet other organizations (churches mainly) that I've been involved in have a set of qualifications for board members and there is a nominating committee that puts together a slate of officers that is presented to the membership at a meeting. The main difference is that these organizations are having in-person meetings and nominations are allowed from the floor. Also the Nominating Committee is elected by the membership, not by the existing board.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
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August 19, 2010 at 7:59 am
Brandie Tarvin (8/19/2010)
The problem with that, Alvin, is you get members who are just "sitting around" suddenly able to apply for the committee positions because they've been around for so long even though they haven't been volunteering or contributing much to the community.
The PASS members would be the ones to decide if they deserve to be elected. It's not much different than the US political system. Any fool can decide to run for president (or other position). The people get to decide if he/she gets elected or not.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
August 19, 2010 at 8:20 am
Alvin Ramard (8/19/2010)
Brandie Tarvin (8/19/2010)
The problem with that, Alvin, is you get members who are just "sitting around" suddenly able to apply for the committee positions because they've been around for so long even though they haven't been volunteering or contributing much to the community.The PASS members would be the ones to decide if they deserve to be elected. It's not much different than the US political system. Any fool can decide to run for president (or other position). The people get to decide if he/she gets elected or not.
That's not entirely correct Alvin. Yes any fool can decide to run, but to get your name on the ballot you need to jump through some hoops. Typically this involves getting a certain number of individuals to sign a petition to put your name on the ballot and other such things. Unless of course you are mounting a write-in campaign which really only works at the local municipality level.
August 19, 2010 at 8:24 am
Luke L (8/19/2010)
... Typically this involves getting a certain number of individuals to sign a petition to put your name on the ballot ...
You might want to reread what I posted.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
August 19, 2010 at 8:26 am
Howard Dean did pretty well as a grassroots guy. Didn't get elected, but did well.
August 19, 2010 at 8:33 am
Alvin Ramard (8/19/2010)
Luke L (8/19/2010)
... Typically this involves getting a certain number of individuals to sign a petition to put your name on the ballot ...You might want to reread what I posted.
Heh, yeah sorry. I was more thinking about that post singularly, not so much as part of the discussion thread.
-Luke.
August 19, 2010 at 8:43 am
Luke L (8/19/2010)
Alvin Ramard (8/19/2010)
Luke L (8/19/2010)
... Typically this involves getting a certain number of individuals to sign a petition to put your name on the ballot ...You might want to reread what I posted.
Heh, yeah sorry. I was more thinking about that post singularly, not so much as part of the discussion thread.
-Luke.
Luke: That's ok.
Everyone: Also keep in mind that what I posted was only meant to be a starting point for a discussion.
For best practices on asking questions, please read the following article: Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help[/url]
August 19, 2010 at 8:50 am
What are peoples thoughts on the remaining 5 candidates? The only one I really know anything about is Andy Warren.
Also if I join pass now do I get to vote or do you have to be a member for a particular amount of time? I'm really taking what Jack said to heart about being involved.
EDIT:
I went to sign up for PASS and appearantly my username already exists, a combination of my first and last name. I guess I've already signed up before.
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August 19, 2010 at 8:58 am
Trey Staker (8/19/2010)
What are peoples thoughts on the remaining 5 candidates? The only one I really know anything about is Andy Warren.Also if I join pass now do I get to vote or do you have to be a member for a particular amount of time? I'm really taking what Jack said to heart about being involved.
EDIT:
I went to sign up for PASS and appearantly my username already exists, a comination of my first and last name. I guess I've already signed up before.
You had to have been a member as of 5/1/2010
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How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
August 19, 2010 at 8:58 am
Trey Staker (8/19/2010)
What are peoples thoughts on the remaining 5 candidates? The only one I really know anything about is Andy Warren.
I know Geoff fairly well. He's an awesome guy. From southern USA, passionate, outspoken (blunt), absolute gentleman, dependable. Goes by the nick SQLCraftsman, which you may have encountered before.
Gail Shaw
Microsoft Certified Master: SQL Server, MVP, M.Sc (Comp Sci)
SQL In The Wild: Discussions on DB performance with occasional diversions into recoverability
August 19, 2010 at 8:59 am
Trey Staker (8/19/2010)
What are peoples thoughts on the remaining 5 candidates? The only one I really know anything about is Andy Warren.Also if I join pass now do I get to vote or do you have to be a member for a particular amount of time? I'm really taking what Jack said to heart about being involved.
EDIT:
I went to sign up for PASS and appearantly my username already exists, a comination of my first and last name. I guess I've already signed up before.
According to elections.sqlpass.org
Who is Eligible to Vote?
The voting membership ("electorate") in 2010 was determined by the Board of Directors according to the PASS Bylaws, and consists of those individuals who were PASS members on or before May 1, 2010.
Also the elections.sqlpass.org site has some campaign space where you can find out more about the candidates.
August 19, 2010 at 8:59 am
Brandie Tarvin (8/19/2010)
I don't know a whole lot about the process, but it almost sounds from the snippets I've read that the volunteer requirements don't have a minimum standard and are therefore a little arbitrary.I'm also wondering if the committee has ever published their interview questions, or at least has a standard list of questions they ask every candidate. I'm not talking about the ad-hoc questions that are based off the interviewee's responses to the first questions, either. Different "standard" question sets tend to make or break interviews without the interviewee actually doing anything wrong.
There was a standard set of questions this year which is the only year I can speak to. You can't publish them before the process because then the interview could be gamed. Could you publish them after? I don't know, depends on if you want to use them again next year.
Jack Corbett
Consultant - Straight Path Solutions
Check out these links on how to get faster and more accurate answers:
Forum Etiquette: How to post data/code on a forum to get the best help
Need an Answer? Actually, No ... You Need a Question
August 19, 2010 at 9:02 am
Jack Corbett (8/19/2010)
Alvin Ramard (8/19/2010)
I think we need to propose a new way to of selecting the candidates. I'd like to see a process where anyone that has been a PASS member for a set minimum of time (maybe 1 year, TBD) can be a candidate, as long as they have x (say 10-12, for example) PASS members supporting them.I think that an idea like this has merit, yet other organizations (churches mainly) that I've been involved in have a set of qualifications for board members and there is a nominating committee that puts together a slate of officers that is presented to the membership at a meeting. The main difference is that these organizations are having in-person meetings and nominations are allowed from the floor. Also the Nominating Committee is elected by the membership, not by the existing board.
I've been struggling with this idea, mainly because of Andy Leonard's blog, haven't posted a response to the three questions because I can't word it right yet. However, the idea someone put forth there is that PASS wants to look like they're community driven, but is acting like they're a for-profit business with their Board election. If it's truly community driven, then the board members should be representatives of the community, not just business minds. It seems the community wants more direct representation and assistance from PASS leadership. So, removing you guys when you're championing the goals of the community seems to be counter to the 'community' ideal. I don't think we can compare the BoD vetting process for PASS to other major companies at all, it should be more like a general election, where as someone so eloquently said, "any idiot can run for president"
---------------------------------------------------------
How best to post your question[/url]
How to post performance problems[/url]
Tally Table:What it is and how it replaces a loop[/url]
"stewsterl 80804 (10/16/2009)I guess when you stop and try to understand the solution provided you not only learn, but save yourself some headaches when you need to make any slight changes."
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